Is Muhammad in the Bible?


#44

Man this was John :slight_smile:
that claimed that isn’t?
`

There came a man who was sent from God. His name was John. 7 He came as a witness to testify about the Light, so that through him everyone might believe. 8 He himself was not the Light, but he came to testify about the Light.

`>So Jesus wasn’t enough and that’s why John is witness? isn’t that a clear exploitation of the Advocate that didn’t came until Prophet Muhammad came and fulfilled Christ professes?


#45

Did you really just call John, the writer of THE GOSPEL OF JOHN, an anti-Christ??

LMFAO! I have never heard anything more ridiculous in my life. Literally. I think this might be the most absurd claim I’ve ever heard, and I’ve been on here quite a while.

Beyond that, I honestly can’t follow your post. I’m going to assume English isn’t your first language. You seem to be implying that everyone existed in some sort of pre-creation, which is an absurd notion. If they exist and are not eternal, they have been created. Period. To claim otherwise is a logical contradiction. There can be no none-eternal existence prior to its creation.

No matter what you may try to claim, the fact of the matter is that the Jews of Jesus’ time CLEARLY understood Him to be committing blasphemy. Given what He said, literally the only thing in that statements which could be considered blasphemous is the “I AM” bit.

You can claim this wasn’t actually said all you want, you can claim it was added later all you want, but you have absolutely no evidence for that assertion other than the rantings of a warlord, four centuries after the event took place. That is hardly a strong foundation for making a claim.

Sorry, I’m done. You honestly just called one of the Gospel writers an anti-Christ, so I am no longer able to take you seriously. I pray for your sake that you are able to free yourself from the ramblings of your so-called prophet.


#46

I need to understand what that means for sake of God!

And truly i wasn’t meaning “John the Apostle” literally but the antichrist that made from him a messenger of God Just probably to prove he is the Advocate or whatever.(As in Islam those guys the true Apostles of Jesus was granted heaven (Paradise) for sure, according to Koran.
So i believe John is not the writer for 100%, as :

The Gospel of Mark probably dates from c. AD 66–70, Matthew and Luke around AD 85–90, and John AD 90–110. Despite the traditional ascriptions all four are anonymous, and none were written by eyewitnesses. Like the rest of the New Testament, they were written in Greek.

But to make it easy for you, they will tell you that the books was written by inspiration of the Holy Spirit , but none of the writers will be mentioned (who published and wrote that book John between AD 90–110, is it John? , and where is the original book of John then if the book is already made by him and preserved etc…???


#47

The gospels were passed down orally from apostle to apprentice, and the apprentices wrote the gospels down. Furthermore, St. John of the Gospel never claimed to be the Advocate you speak of, just that he would write a testimony of Jesus Christ so that others might believe.

No, that’s definitely the Gospel of John and it’s referring to the Word (which was made flesh, in Jesus).

No we do not. Why do you think we have to think that verse refers to the Father?

Any reason we should believe that all people existed before their conception? Also, you said Jesus wasn’t the Word earlier. Which is it?

We need proof that the Gospels have been tampered with.

Jesus cannot be the Word if Islam is true. The Word is God.

Can you provide any evidence that the Trinity is a misconception?


#48

**Luke:

One day as Jesus was praying in private and the disciples were with Him, He questioned them: “Who do the crowds say I am?”

They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, that a prophet of old has arisen.”

“But what about you?” Jesus asked. “Who do you say I am?”

Peter answered, “The Christ of God.”

**In Mathew version, they will distort the same sentence to :

Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

Also the “Who do the crowds say I am?” has been changed to:

“Who do people say the Son of Man is?”

So clearly we should remove from the Bible the words like those ones that are changed to other interpreted words and not the original translated words. (And mainly used to prove Jesus PBUH is God)

While we can clearly find mainly words like :

Am going to the one who sent me…

The true one God…

My father and my God as well as your Father and your God…

25 I have spoken these things to you in figures of speech. A time is coming when>>I will no longer speak to you this way<<, but >>1will tell you plainly about the Father<<. 26In that day you will ask in my name. >>I am not saying that I will ask the Father on your behalf<<. 27For the Father Himself loves you, because you have loved me and >>have believed that I came from God

So means clearly Jesus will only talk about God the true one God after his return to earth and not in same figure of speech he used already (father/son).

Muslims do not have to prove their Holy Book and that’s the true direct words of God, or to defend Bible as multiple books referring to Jesus and his Apostles from many sources (In Islam they will only prove Sunna with a strong chain and a strong checking mechanism. to prove similar books to Bibles called Hadith and they arranged them into 3 levels of accuracy)

That’s easily because God is proclaiming those words his own words and God himself is defending his book and challenging Mankind including any possible help of unseen creatures like devils or whatever and aid of software and technology if you want, Magic or whatever!..
To do what? to create one single chapter like Koran. then Koran is proved not from God!!!
If you can prove a mistake in Koran or one contradiction clearly and not just claims!! also you have proved the same
But to be honest only the first one was the direct claim from God to check if Koran is words of the Mighty God or not ((to make alike Koran/ 10 chapters of like Koran/1 chapter! of like Koran)), but also the second challenge is valid as well.
So if i found 1 contradiction in bible just by coincidence! can you give me one contradiction by digging for years and years in Koran??
So we need to be honest so we can get to a common ground and full respect of each other.


#49

Or, both are correct, but only one allows false teachers to bastardize the Gospel and claim that Jesus isn’t God.


#50

Muslims do not have to prove their Holy Book and that’s the true direct words of God, or to defend Bible as multiple books referring to Jesus and his Apostles from many sources (In Islam they will only prove Sunna with a strong chain and a strong checking mechanism. to prove similar books to Bibles called Hadith and they arranged them into 3 levels of accuracy)

That’s easily because God is proclaiming those words his own words and God himself is defending his book and challenging Mankind including any possible help of unseen creatures like devils or whatever and aid of software and technology if you want, Magic or whatever!..
To do what? to create one single chapter like Koran. then Koran is proved not from God!!!
If you can prove a mistake in Koran or one contradiction clearly and not just claims!! also you have proved the same
But to be honest only the first one was the direct claim from God to check if Koran is words of the Mighty God or not ((to make alike Koran/ 10 chapters of like Koran/1 chapter! of like Koran)), but also the second challenge is valid as well.
So if i found 1 contradiction in bible just by coincidence! can you give me one contradiction by digging for years and years in Koran??
So we need to be honest so we can get to a common ground and full respect of each other.

By the way If Koran is 100% true and precise this doesn’t mean we have to reject other books of God but to know how we should interpret some verses at least!


#51

I am not sure what you mean by that?

Yes this is about John the Baptist.

John came before Jesus, to prepare Israel to receive Him. John announced Him to the people before John was put to death.

I am having trouble understanding what you are trying to ask here. Catholics consider the Advocate to be the Holy Spirit, who was given to the Church after both John the Baptist and Jesus were put to death.

The Prophet Mohammed only fulfilled Jesus prophesy by pointing people to someone other than Jesus.


#52

Yeah, you do. The Koran is just paper and scribblings unless you can prove that it isn’t.

Differences in language aren’t contradictions. Differences in teaching are. Find a real difference in teaching, then i’ll listen.


#53

It’s up to you to prove words of Koran are not from God as i and you can produce 1 chapter of any other book claiming to be Holy.(at least because you do not have any original version of the Gospel or Torah)
For contradictions in Bibles that was already done hundreds of times…
Do you mean: Christ of God is same as Christ the son of the living God???
and who the “son of man” is? is equal to who i am?


#54

Nice try. Burden of proof lies on the claimant. Now, you have to also prove that there’s other true gospels and Jewish texts.


#55

No, Jesus did not say these words:

In the beginning was the Word,
and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God.

These words were written by John the Evangelist, as disciple of Jesus. Jesus is referred to as the “Word” or the Logos, and existed with God the Father and the Holy Spirit prior to coming to earth as Jesus.

No, this passage is not from the Hebrew bible. It is from the Gospel of John in the New Testament.

Jesus had plenty to say about Himself as God. These sayings were recorded in the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Jesus did not write any books. John the Evangelist was an Apostle of Jesus.

I am not sure who you are referencing or what you mean by “Advocate”. When Catholics talk about the Advocate, we mean the Holy Spirit.

It seems like you are confused. John the Evangelist was a disciple of Jesus, and was known as the “one that Jesus loved”.

This passage is not from the book of Malachi. The Apostle John deliberately did not put his name on His gospel, so as not to draw attention to himself.

This passage you have quoted here is from his Gospel, and is describing John the Baptist. Perhaps you have your “Johns” mixed up?

This is one example of Jesus telling the people that He is God.

Jesus was, in the beginning, with God the Father and God the Holy Spirit before the creation of the universe.

Jesus is the Messiah, and the Second person of the Trinity, God the Son.


#56

Thank you man you have now clarified to me that you are talking about a prophet of God that was actually sent according to Koran and i love this man so much! his true name is Yahya !!!

Mentioned in Koran as the son of Zechariah(Chapter Al Imran* which means the family of which includes Imran, Saint Anne , Mary, and Jesus, Zechariah, John…)

(37) So her Lord accepted her with good acceptance and caused her to grow in a good manner and put her in the care of Zechariah. Every time Zechariah entered upon her in the prayer chamber, he found with her provision. He said, “O Mary, from where is this [coming] to you?” She said, “It is from Allah. Indeed, Allah provides for whom He wills without account.”
(38) At that, Zechariah called upon his Lord, saying, “My Lord, grant me from Yourself a good offspring. Indeed, You are the Hearer of supplication.”
(39) So the angels called him while he was standing in prayer in the chamber, “Indeed, Allah gives you good tidings of John, confirming a word from Allah and [who will be] honorable, abstaining [from women], and a prophet from among the righteous.”
(40) He said, “My Lord, how will I have a boy when I have reached old age and my wife is barren?” The angel said, “Such is Allah; He does what He wills.”
(41) He said, “My Lord, make for me a sign.” He Said, “Your sign is that you will not [be able to] speak to the people for three days except by gesture. And remember your Lord much and exalt [Him with praise] in the evening and the morning.”

(12) [Allah] said, “O John, take the Scripture with determination.” And We gave him judgement [while yet] a boy
(13) And affection from Us and purity, and he was fearing of Allah
(14) And dutiful to his parents, and he was not a disobedient tyrant.
(15) And peace be upon him the day he was born and the day he dies and the day he is raised alive.
(16) And mention, [O Muhammad], in the Book [the story of] Mary, when she withdrew from her family to a place toward the east.
(17) And she took, in seclusion from them, a screen. Then We sent to her Our Angel, and he represented himself to her as a well-proportioned man.
(18) She said, “Indeed, I seek refuge in the Most Merciful from you, [so leave me], if you should be fearing of Allah.”
(19) He said, “I am only the messenger of your Lord to give you [news of] a pure boy.”
(20) She said, “How can I have a boy while no man has touched me and I have not been unchaste?”
(21) He said, "Thus [it will be]; your Lord says, ‘It is easy for Me, and We will make him a sign to the people and a mercy from Us. And it is a matter [already] decreed.’ "
(22) So she conceived him, and she withdrew with him to a remote place.
(23) And the pains of childbirth drove her to the trunk of a palm tree. She said, “Oh, I wish I had died before this and was in oblivion, forgotten.”
(24) But he called her from below her, "Do not grieve; your Lord has provided beneath you a stream.
(25) And shake toward you the trunk of the palm tree; it will drop upon you ripe, fresh dates.
Al Imran Link


#57

For Christians, God the Son (Jesus) is the one through whom all was created. He is a person, not just “the will of God”.

You may not be able to accept that He claimed this, and that is fine, but He claimed this on more than one occasion.

Where your argument fails utterly is that you seem to think that we believe this because of what is written in the Bible. However, this is the faith of the Church that was delivered to us by the Apostles. This fact was known to the Church before a single word of the New Testament was ever written.

The antichrist denies Jesus. The antichrist is not a “messenger of God”. I don’t know what you mean by “the Advocate” but this term is not used by Christians to refer to the antichrist or to the Apostles.

Wouldn’t that rule out that any of them were 'antichrist"?

None of this information rules out that John the Evangelist wrote his Gospel.

The fact that all these books are inspired by the Holy Spirit has nothing to do with “making it easier for us”. The books were written by, for, and about Catholics. They were preserved, promulgated and canonized by Catholics. This is why the Catholic Church knows who are the authors.


#58

This is not a distortion. It is two different reports of the same event. When different people tell a story, they remember different details.

It has not been “changed”. These accounts are not based upon each other. They are written by two different authors.

No, we do not “remove” any of the inspired text. The whole entirely of it is inerrant. You may wish to remove these references because you want to deny that Jesus is God, claimed He was God, and was testified to be God by His apostles. This is the faith of the Church, and existed before any of these books were written. What is written reflects what Jesus taught.

No. Jesus talked a great deal about God the Father before He ascended. He did this using parables and directly instructing the people.

Catholics are not “people of the book”, so proofs from the book are not complimentary, not “proofs”.

Out of your mouth…or your keyboard!

Christian faith is not dependent upon the Koran, so it is not particularly useful to try prove the claims of Christianity by its pages.

It sounds like your idea of “common ground” is for us to take out parts of the Bible that do not support your views!


#59

And are you going to tell God that in day of judgement?the Catholic Church knows who are the authors? but Koran is not enough? even we couldn’t Lord look at it and check it and prove whether it’s your words or not! You know we are not Arabs! …But were you Jews? or did i sent any book in other languages than Aramaic and Arabic?
That what makes sense to me to have strong proof and not to have what my fathers, church fathers said to me or history or non original Books.


#60

You’re grasping at straws. Prove that the Koran is anything more than fiction. Prove that the Bible has been corrupted.


#61

Yes. IF the Koran is 100% true and precise, then we have to reject the Christian Bible, or do some sort of mental gymnastics to interpret it so that the Koran can be right, since the contradict each other.

Catholics believe that God does not contradict Himself, so both of them cannot be “100% true and precise”.

On the contrary, the burden lies upon the one making the assertion to prove that it is true.

Of course, from your perspective, the Bible must be false, since it contradicts the Koran. Even though it came BEFORE the Koran, one must find a way to debunk the Bible so that Islam can be True.

Fortunately, Catholics are not “people of the book”. Our faith does not emanate from the Scripture, but from the person of Christ. His teachings were whole and entire when they were deposited to the Church, before a word of the New Testament was ever written. The NT is not the Source of our faith, but Jesus, the Son of God, the second person of the Trinity.

Yes, an irrelevant point, since most of those were not authorized by the Church founded by Christ.

Yes.

Yes. Jesus is God.

I doubt it. If you equate this person to the antichrist, then no.


#62

I understand that the Koran tries to justify itself by referencing the Bible.

I guess you are saying that this account of events, manufactured some 7 centuries after the fact, is more accurate than the account given by those who were present when the events occurred?

So who are these “Us”? I know Muslims are the children of Ishmael, and believe in the One God, so we can’t be talking about the Trinity revealed by Jesus.

This verse seems spurious, since tyranny requires secular power and John the Baptist did not have any.

So the Koran teaches that John the Baptist was “raised alive”? what does that mean?

She, Mary the mother of Jesus?
God represented Himself as a 'well proportioned man"? Does the Koran claim that Mary the mother of Jesus rejected Joseph?

From whom did she take the screen? What is the screen?
Who is the “We” from whom the angel was sent?

Actually, I am glad to read this, since it is so opposite of what was given to us by the Apostles. It is very clear that Muhammad just made up his own version, editing it to fit with his own ideas.

This sounds closer to an account of Hagar and Ishmael, from whom the Muslim faith arises.


#63

I am not in a position to tell God anything on the Day of Judgment. I will be throwing myself upon His mercy.

Yes. The New Testament was written by, for, and about Catholics, and the Church knows who are the authors.

Evidently it is enough for all Muslims. The Koran is enough to reject the person and work of Christ.

There is no need to do so. I have not claimed to have written any of it.

On the contrary, I know very little about you. I do know there are many Muslims who are not Arab. But is is of no matter. Jesus was descended from wandering Arameans, as are the Arabs today. They are the children of Ishmael.

Christianity is founded upon Judaism. Jesus, and all of the Apostles were Jews. We are “Messianic Jews” who have received Jesus as the promised Jewish Messiah.

Are you speaking in the voice of Allah?

I can understand why that makes sense to you, but this was not the plan of God for His Holy Bride, the Church. He revealed Himself to our fathers, and committed to the Church the Holy Writings, which are inspired and inerrant.


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