If i’m being rather honest, I could never be Muslim. The Catholic God makes sense. He rules by love and mercy. He is worthy of my devotion beyond all measure. The Muslim god is not. He rules by fear. I would sooner be atheist than bow down to a god like that professed to be Allah by muslims.
He won’t be answering any time soon. He’s been suspended.
One verse for you Matthew 12:8.
The Qurans challenge to produce a chapter like it are logical fallacies, firstly I could disapprove the challenge by pointing you to about three Surahs that might have formerly been a part of the Quran, but were later removed by Uthman. Surah Al Wilaya, Surah Al Hafd and Surah Al Khal google them their literary style is exactly that of the Surahs in the modern day Quran, yet strangely enough they’re not considered part of the Quran. I can give you a couple historical errors in the Quran, the fact it accuses maninstream Judaism of worshipping Ezra as the Son of God as Christians worship Jesus. Despite the fact mainstream Judaism has no belief God can beget sons. And the fact that it says that Mohammed went to Masjid Al Aqsa on a flying creature called Buraq from Mecca even though Masjid Al Aqsa wasn’t built around that time. And in case you like to play the argument centered around the word Masjid, Tafsir Ibn Kathir says it was a literal building that Mohammed prayed in not simply a place of prostration:
Actually the reason Jesus was killed by the Jewish leadership was because of two main reasons which can be centered on one reason blasphemy. Those two reasons are for claims to be the Messiah and a claim to divinity.
Muslims have already done that with Surah Al Khal and Surah Al Hafd. I also challenge you to write any Biblical contradiction in here:
In your argument, you made lots of contradictions. Apparently, Islam is the completion of all Abrahamic religions and yet it contradicts with Biblical accounts.
So Muslims believe Jesus was a prophet sent by God.
So Muslims believe Mohammad is also a prophet sent by God.
What do Muslims think about the Apostles, sent by Jesus to the four corners of the world? Did Christian’s distort the history of the work they did? The churches established by Paul, Peter, James, John, Thomas, Andrew, Bartholomew, etc…
What do Muslims think about those who followed the Apostles? Mark? Luke? Timothy? Etc.
What do Muslims believe about Ignatious, Polycarp, Justin?
Someone mentioned we are not people of the book. Our belief is not based on the book. I believe this. Our faith is built on living stone.
I can’t believe the Muslim claim that Jesus failed in His mission as soon as he started, any more than I can believe the Protestant claim to the same affect.
& I believe St Paul. If Jesus was not God, what was the point? If we don’t discern our God in the Eucharist, what’s the point?
What’s the point of Jerusalem if it doesn’t point to a better place? What’s the point if it points to another place here on earth (Mecca)? What’s the point of Rome if it points to Constantinople?
My understanding of Christianity is that everything points to God. We may not understand it, may not see it. But that’s the point. Everything points to God. Anything that does not, is false.
That’s what God revealed to us in Genesis. It’s what he revealed to us in Exodus, Deuteronomy, Numbers, Daniel, Isaiah, Malachi, Matthew, Acts, Phillipians, Philemon, Revelation.
If the Koran is telling us the same, that everything points to God, so be it. One day we’ll all share that understanding as it is God’s will that we’re all turned to Him. But if the Koran says Jesus is not God, I don’t understand how it points us to God.
What was from the beginning. What we have heard. What we have seen with our own eyes & touched with our hands concern the Word of life. For the life was made visible to us. We have seen it & testify to it & proclaim to you the everlasting life that was with the Father was made visible to us.
About what I’m reading on this subject? Are there end of days prophecies in the Quran and is this next paragraph one of them?
The surah opens with an oath by a heaven full of stars: by the sky containing great stars. The Arabic word Al-Burooj is interpreted in several ways. The word Al-Burooj is the plural of Burj which means fort or tower; something that can be seen from a distance. Ibn 'Abbas, Mujahid, Ad-Dahhaj, Al-Hasan, Qatadah and As-Suddi said Burj means stars. Ibn Jareer chose the view that it means the positions of the sun and the moon, which are twelve Burooj. The sun travels through each one of these Burj in one month. The moon travels through each one of these Burj in two-and-a-third days, which makes a total of twenty-eight positions, and it is hidden for two nights [making a month of 30 approximately].
The word “Al-Burooj” in the first verse is translated to stars, mainly ‘great stars’.
By the Sky full of constellations”.
The term /buruj/ is the plural form of /burj/ which originally means ‘a castle’ or ‘a tower’. Some have rendered it to anything that is apparent, manifest or conspicuous, high or elevated; hence /burj/ is applied to a certain kind of structure. Also, /burj/ is used to define an angle of a fortress, or of a surrounding wall of a city, which is more conspicuous; and sometimes a fortress, itself, is called /burj/.
The celestial bodies are either the bright stars of the sky, or the ‘constellations’, that is, ‘a number of fixed stars arbitrarily considered as a group’ usually named after some mythological beings that they supposedly resemble an outline, or the broad belt of the constellations marking the twelve Signs of the Zodiac.
Each makes the solar path through the heavens, as we see it, month after month.
The reason for asking this question was because I was trying to find information on Al Jouf and Tayma /ˈtaɪmə/ (Arabic: تيماء) or Tema /ˈtiːmə/Teman/Tyeman/Yeman (Habakkuk 3:3)‹ is a large oasis with a long history of settlement, located in northwestern Saudi Arabia at the point where the trade route between Yathrib (Medina) and Dumah (al-Jawf) begins to cross the Nefud desert
Going back to the original question, surely if you are using the Gospel of John as truth direct from God in this passage then you have to accept the rest of the Gospel in it’s entirety and therefore accept the passages that say how Jesus was the Word who was with God for all eternity and was not created.
I think the previous post might answer your question on what Muslims believe about Jesus and the end of days ( as a witness) as with all creation- the tribulation period and comparing it from the book of revelations.
And the reason why I brought up Al Jouf was because they found some recent artifacts and the village has been placed on a government hold. No one is allowed to touch anything
Question? And, I think it might go underneath what I just posted.
For every house is built by someone, but God is the builder of everything. Hebrews 3: 4
1 What I am saying is that as long as the heir is a child, he is no different from a slave, although he is the owner of everything. 2 He is subject to guardians and trustees until the date set by his father.
3 So also, when we were children, we were enslaved under the basic principlesa of the world. 4 But when the time had fully come, God sent His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, 5 to redeem those under the Law, that we might receive our adoption as sons. 6 And because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying out, “Abba, Father!” 7 So you are no longer a slave, but a son; and since you are a son, you are also an heir through God.
Going back to Genesis 17, and the verse that cemented the blessing between the two children. And Abraham said to God, “If only Ishmael might live under your blessing!”
These children, as the apostle Paul wrote about, came from two separate houses - family of origin.
The Lord spoke to Moses and Aaron saying “The Israelites shall camp each with his standard under the banners of their ancestral homes”. - Numbers 2:2
Point being is that we would not carry a prophecy on a prophet that was meant for another people. Although, this prophet, who may not have been anticipated, we still can not assert that scripture did not have the prophet revealed in someway as someone who had changed so many lives back to God.
No, it doesn’t.
Was the prophecy brought into scripture for us to know and understand? Regarding the prophet Mohammed, No. Was the scripture written toward a son that held the promise? Yes. Two children as scripture notes were blessed, I’m running away from my mistress Sarai,” she answered.
9 Then the angel of the Lord told her, “Go back to your mistress and submit to her.” 10 The angel added, “I will increase your descendants so much that they will be too numerous to count.”
However, these children of Abraham, might be on the same path but each in their own direction. This is what the LORD says: 'If you can break my covenant with the day and my covenant with the night, so that day and night no longer come at their appointed time,
This is how I see it, the children are Abraham’s but each with a blessing toward their own household.
For every house is built by someone, but God is the builder of everything. Hebrews 3: 4
Many laws within the Middle East forbid the intermixing of the families.
I know this poster is no longer here, but he made several comments about there being no original versions of the Bible manuscripts in existence today.
I was under the impression that this was exactly the same situation with the Koran; that there are no original copies of the Koran in existence today. I found the below article which describes this. Would anyone be able to corroborate this? If this is true, that argument falls flat.
Qur’an do not say Christians worship Mary but take Her and Son as deities besides God:
116- And [beware the Day] when Allah will say, “O Jesus, Son of Mary, did you say to the people, ‘Take me and my mother as deities besides Allah?’” He will say, "Exalted are You! It was not for me to say that to which I have no right. If I had said it, You would have known it. You know what is within myself, and I do not know what is within Yourself. Indeed, it is You who is Knower of the unseen. (Al-Maidah- 5)
As I know Christians discuss some issues such like that: Is it true to pray in name of Mary? Mother of God! Assumption of Mary.
The issue is that Christians attribute some divine attributives for Mary and Jesus. Qur’an point that.
Qur’an rejects all kinds of Shirk! Trinity is one of them. That is mentioned in those verses:
78- And indeed, there is among them a party who alter the Scripture with their tongues so you may think it is from the Scripture, but it is not from the Scripture. And they say, “This is from Allah,” but it is not from Allah. And they speak untruth about Allah while they know.
79- It is not for a human [prophet] that Allah should give him the Scripture and authority and prophethood and then he would say to the people, “Be servants to me rather than Allah,” but [instead, he would say], “Be pious scholars of the Lord because of what you have taught of the Scripture and because of what you have studied.”
80- Nor could he order you to take the angels and prophets as lords. Would he order you to disbelief after you had been Muslims? (Al-Imran -3)
angel: Holy Spirit or Jibril or Gabriel
And also Qur’an mention that Christians take their scholars as lords. That means that Christians give authority of making laws in religion. But making law in religion is belong to God through prophets:
31- They have taken their scholars and monks as lords besides Allah, and [also] the Messiah, the son of Mary. And they were not commanded except to worship one God; there is no deity except Him. Exalted is He above whatever they associate with Him. (At-Tawbah-9)
Which is basically what I said.
Yeah, so? Isn’t one of the causes for the major divide between Sunni and Shi’ite Muslims over who was Mohammed’s legitimate successor, among other things? Aren’t there prayer differences between Sunni and Shi’ite Muslims?
Here’s the issue: the “divine attributes” that the Quran claims that Christianity gives Jesus and Mary that basically makes them gods. But Christianity claims to worship only one God, that the Trinue God is one God. Never has Christianity ever held Mary up as a goddess with divine powers in her own right or competing with God. And all attempts to split the Trinity up as separate (Modalism, Arianism, etc.) have been condemned as heresy. So I’ll ask this again: why then does the Quran, purportedly dictated by God Himself get this fundamental fact of Christianity wrong?
And where do we do that? What does it mean to take a scholar’s word over a prophet’s? What specific example does the Quran cite? Where does Christianity say that any scholar can overrule what, for example, Isaiah says? I’ll bet you it doesn’t give a single example.