Is Paul greater than Jesus?


#1

I have spent the last month everyday listening to “Catholics & the Rapture” and I’ve been pondering something Patrick Madrid said which coincides with how I’ve have always thought concerning Scripture.

“On any given subject that is brought to question, Protestants tend to look toward Paul first for answers and then try to make the Gospels fit the epistles, whereas Catholics tend to look toward Jesus and what he has said in the Gospels, where we believe the words of Jesus will shed light on the Epistles” :confused:

If this is true than could be be said that if Protestants think the words of Paul are greater then Jesus, then they are unknowingly proclaiming that Paul is greater than Jesus? :eek:

Give me your thoughts on this! :wink:


#2

I don’t know if they consider him greater than Jesus, but I do know, growing up in a Lutheran school, that Paul was definately given more credit than Peter. In my school, Peter was often made to look like a bumbling simpleton, endearing to Jesus only becuase he was enthusiastic. Paul on the other hand, was the brilliant evangelist that taught everyone what Jesus wanted them to know. In a way, the fact that Paul was chosen later was an indictment of Apostolic progression, becuase if the “best” appostle was one chosen later, couldn’t God later choose someone “better” than the Church to convey God’s truth?


#3

It’s not that Paul is greater than Jesus…it is in their zeal to put down Peter that they overcompensate with Paul. It is funny that you noticed that…I thought I was the only one that saw it that way. Protestants spend so much energy trying to debunk Peter, they try to depict him as stupid as to discredit the papacy.


#4

My own opinion in dealing with them. Poor Saint Paul a misunderstood writer. When they throw around his quotes if you notice the quotes they use are just bits and peices. Take for instance the faith alone statement that they love to use. (They don’t even look at the story that Saint Paul is referring to when using this.) Obviously they like his quotes because they can twist them. ALthough Christ is not exempt from their attacks either. Look at the statement he made about his brothers and sisters. This one is thrown alot by protestants. So it just depends on what point they are trying to prove. But they do throw around alot of quotes but I will state they are all partial quotes. “Born again” etc.


#5

There is no one on this earth past, present, or future greater than Jesus Christ. He was the greatest man who ever lived. Jesus is God, and there is nothing greater than God, and that’s a fact :slight_smile:


#6

KnightErrant…great minds think alike? I sure do love you!!! That was too funny…we posted at about the same time…I think your internet connx is just a tad faster than mine…time to upgrade the wireless!!!


#7

Is Paul greater than Jesus?

Let’s see what the bible says … “I tell you the truth, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him.” – John 13:16


#8

[quote=Sir Knight]Is Paul greater than Jesus?

Let’s see what the bible says … "I tell you the truth, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him." – John 13:16
[/quote]

That doesn’t count because Paul didn’t say it.


#9

No, but Paul did say that he had to work at his salvation with fear and trembling and he also said that his salvation came from Christ.


#10

[quote=geezerbob]That doesn’t count because Paul didn’t say it.

[/quote]

It does count, Paul is a servant of Jesus Christ, and also an apostle.
He is not greater than Jesus, nor did he ever claim to be. So Christ’s words do count, as they always will.


#11

Sorry, I should have put a smiley on that post. Just emphasizing the attitude of some Protestants who frequently quote Paul but seldom quote Jesus.


#12

[quote=geezerbob]Sorry, I should have put a smiley on that post. Just emphasizing the attitude of some Protestants who frequently quote Paul but seldom quote Jesus.
[/quote]

I understood what you were saying geezer… :slight_smile:


#13

[quote=geezerbob]That doesn’t count because Paul didn’t say it.

[/quote]

:rotfl:


#14

[quote=geezerbob]Sorry, I should have put a smiley on that post. Just emphasizing the attitude of some Protestants who frequently quote Paul but seldom quote Jesus.
[/quote]

Hey! You’ve been talking to my father-in-law! :rotfl:


#15

[quote=geezerbob]Sorry, I should have put a smiley on that post. Just emphasizing the attitude of some Protestants who frequently quote Paul but seldom quote Jesus.
[/quote]

And that is the scope of this issue.

Do they actually know that they are giving more credit to Paul than Jesus?

Good response everyone! :wave:


#16

[quote=JoeyWarren]I have spent the last month everyday listening to “Catholics & the Rapture” and I’ve been pondering something Patrick Madrid said which coincides with how I’ve have always thought concerning Scripture.

“On any given subject that is brought to question, Protestants tend to look toward Paul first for answers and then try to make the Gospels fit the epistles, whereas Catholics tend to look toward Jesus and what he has said in the Gospels, where we believe the words of Jesus will shed light on the Epistles” :confused:

If this is true than could be be said that if Protestants think the words of Paul are greater then Jesus, then they are unknowingly proclaiming that Paul is greater than Jesus? :eek:

Give me your thoughts on this! :wink:
[/quote]

Mine are: that the reason he is so greatly honoured, is partly because his writings are the nearest one gets in the NT to systematic theology. The words of Jesus, on the whole, are prompted by particular occasions - they lack the organised character of (say) Romans, which contains a sustained argument from near the beginning, to the end of chapter 11.

He is more clearly didactic than Jesus - not surprisingly, given the problems he had to respond to. And much USA Protestantism is - speaking very generally - very keen on two things in particular: teaching, and evangelism. St. Paul is a very rich source for both.

Jesus spoke within a Jewish, Palestinian, culture - St.Paul had, somehow, to make the reality of what He was and did and said available to people who were often not Jewish, and did not have the same ideas about God and His ways as Jews would have. Talking about “the son of man” is fine if one is a Jew in Palestine - but it’s no good expecting an Athenian devote of Dionysos, or a Roman official, to have a clue about what is meant by the words. In modern jargon, Paul had to “inculturate” the ideas of a Jewish apocalyptic sect into a non-Jewish culture. His letters, show him engaged in doing so.

And there is the historical veneration of Paul as the Apostle of God’s grace - grace, is almost the supreme Protestant theological motif.

Jesus is - in many ways - much more readily assimilated to his background in Palestinian Judaism: St.Paul is the Apostle who makes explicit much of what the Reality of Jesus implies for the young Church; he shows just how decisively the world has been transformed by that Reality.

In no way does it follow that Protestants imagine Paul is greater than Jesus: no one with any experience of evangelical Protestant piety could possibly imagine this - he applies much of what Jesus says & means to questions that did not arise when the Church was confined to Palestine; and that is what is so useful about him. He had to deal with problems that Jesus did not ##


#17

Gottle of Geer, you may be wrong on a lot of accounts.

Protestants tend to try to make a distinction that Jesus was speaking only to the Jews and Palenstinians only. That is not even true.

Jesus says he came for not the Jews but the Gentiles. Jesus was speaking in the most part to his apostles, whom he would tell them to go an spread to the whole world his message.

Furthermore, everything Paul hath said in his Epistles is from the knowledge he hath gained from the 11 that survived Jesus witrh few exceptions where he quotes from the torah and the prophets or when he was given a glimpse of events yet to come.

Furthermore, Paul was writing to specific Churches with specific problems. As Christ was rose to the occasion to confront an issue, Paul did likewise.

A CHRISTIAN SHOULD ALWAYS LOOK TO CHRIST AND WHAT HE SAID FOR ANSWERS, AND THE LIGHT OF JESUS WILL SHED LIGHT ON WHAT THE EPISTLES ARE TRYING TO CONVEY. ONE SHOULD NEVER GO TO PAUL FIRST AND TRY TO SHOEHORN IN WHAT CHRIST SAID TO FIT PAUL’S WORDS.


#18

Hi Joey, where did Jesus speak about say Spiritual Gifts like tongues? Bottom line is Jesus gives deeper information on some topics like the Kingdom of God and Paul gives more complete information on some topics like Spiritual Gifts. Can you guess what Peter gives more information on then either Paul or Jesus?


#19

Jesus is Divine, Paul is not. It’s that simple!!!


#20

Don’t know yet Daniel, have not gotten that far in scripture study, still on working on Mark.

But back to the issue, Peter and/or Paul may give deeper information but one should always consult the Gospels first and the Epistles last.


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