Is Pope qualified to preach economics

Again and again the Pope preaches and espouses left wing economics, for which I believe he is wildly off base and misinformed.

I don’t feel he is qualified and should stick with core catholic teaching and principles. Your thoughts

A corresponding question is what qualifications do you have to determine his fitness for making comments on economics?

What are your economic qualifications that you can say the pope is misinformed? If nothing else, the pope is indirectly teaching us humility. We’re too often so sure of things that simply aren’t true or uncertain.

Having said that, the pope can be wrong on economic facts but at the very least he’s saying Catholics can’t be Ayn Rand libertarians. The state has a responsibility to the poor. That’s not economics. That’s faith and morals.

Well what the pope espouses compounds the poverty levels, So can one be a good catholic and disagree on the economic preaching of this pope

I had been a little uncomfortable with this pope at the beginning and I did not automatically connect to him like I did JPII.

But he has lived among the poor, and he talks in the mindset of the poor…off the cuff…so you have to really discern what he is saying, what the context is, and who wrote the journalism.

There was a big upheaval because an atheist in Italy interviewed him. No video, no audio What the journalist did was misrepresent the pope to the world. Later he apologized.

He is also knowledgeable that we are heading for an economic, financial crash and is guiding us to be more simple and live with less to prepare us. That is how i see him.

I was reading about distributism, but came to a piece the other night that according to Pope Leo???..not sure which one, all the Church can really promote is ‘the common good’ for all people. JPII said he thought the free market with a strong moral voice was the best in a democratic society. But if the majority ends up not having a good moral voice, then you can’t use that form indefinitely. Many Catholics are into distributism but it has alot of concepts that cannot work in reality. It is more like values to live by and work to implement in the world around you, I guess.

But from what I gathered, the Church did provide some education in the field of economics, don’t have my resource right now handy. But all it can truly promote within its jurisidiction is the common good.

You’ve changed the question.

You claim that the Pope preaches ‘left wing economics’ and you believe he is 'wildly off base and misinformed.

What exactly are your qualifications for making this judgment against the Pope?

Please cite examples where he preaches ‘left wing economics’ and exactly how he is ‘misinformed’.

How is he ‘**preaching’ this?

**What do you consider are Catholic basics?

Are there some things which Catholics cannot talk about or have an opinion on? Is the Pope not to be permitted to talk about a subject, even to have approval as a individual person on a subject, without it being claimed that if he doesn’t condemn it outright he is somehow ‘preaching’ it? :confused:

And where would you draw the line between “economics” and Catholic “social justice?”

Depends. One can say that any welfare compounds poverty. That we shouldn’t have soup kitchens because it creates a culture of dependency. That the poor need to pull themselves up instead of relying on hand-outs. A good Catholic cannot subscribe to that line of thinking. Catholics give hand-outs to the poor, even the “undeserving.”

On the other hand, we can certain disagree with anyone over which policy will help the poor more. E.g., the minimum wage, free trade. I get the sense the Pope Francis is against free trade as it has been practiced in Argentina. Free trade is good for the poor overall in the long term. But it should be organized so that the poor today don’t end up starving.

This is one of the great things about having a pope. Religions without a single outside authority allow adherents to shop for the theology that justifies their own worldview. Catholics are challenged to question their own worldview. That doesn’t mean Catholics needs to agree with everything the pope says but it does force us to reexamine.

With due respect for your views, I do not think you know what you are talking about. Pope Francis, being a Jesuit, has at least two academic doctorates under his belt. One, in Theology and the other in a Lay subject. In addition, he has lived and worked amongst the poor in his native Argentina.
In addition to all of this, as Pope, he has some of the most professional economists in practice today to advise him. That is how he is able to adapt Catholic welfare mandates to the lay world.

It wasn’t me that you were asking, but I’m going to stick my oar in anyway. The line between “economics” (especially left-wing economics) and “Catholic social justice” is this: with the former, it is the state that is responsible for providing for the poor (a proposition with which I disagree), while with the latter it is those who are economically blessed that are responsible for providing for the poor. In Jesus parable of the sheep and the goats, it wasn’t governments that were punished for their lack of provisions; it was individual “goats” who were sent into outer darkness.

He is Argentinean. That makes him qualified in my book - much more qualified than an American who is completely blind to how exploitative the world economy really is.

Catholic social teaching places the obligation to provide for the poor on both the individual and the state.

Rerum Novarum:

The richer class have many ways of shielding themselves, and stand less in need of help from the State; whereas the mass of the poor have no resources of their own to fall back upon, and must chiefly depend upon the assistance of the State. And it is for this reason that wage-earners, since they mostly belong in the mass of the needy, should be specially cared for and protected by the government.

Governments are people. Governments don’t go to hell. People do. Individuals within government are responsible for their own actions. Among their obligations is to help the poor including using the levers of government to do so.

An example where Pope Francis preaches left-wing economics:

“Jesus does not ask Zacchaeus to change jobs nor does he condemn his financial activity; he simply inspires him to put everything, freely yet immediately and indisputably, at the service of others. Consequently, I do not hesitate to state, as did my predecessors (cf. JOHN PAUL II, Sollicitudo Rei Socialis, 42-43; Centesimus Annus, 43; BENEDICT XVI, Caritas in Veritate, 6; 24-40), that equitable economic and social progress can only be attained by joining scientific and technical abilities with an unfailing commitment to solidarity accompanied by a generous and disinterested spirit of gratuitousness at every level. A contribution to this equitable development will also be made both by international activity aimed at the integral human development of all the world’s peoples and by the legitimate redistribution of economic benefits by the State, as well as indispensable cooperation between the private sector and civil society.”

  • 09 May 2014 address to the United Nations

Which state, either right wing or left wing does not practice redistribution?

Then Catholic social teaching advocates the use of force. You can’t help the poor with other people’s money unless you first take it away from them.

This was a response to a specific challenge posed by Tantum Ergo. Do try to stay on point.

Of course the Church allows the state to use force.

Thank you everyone - I believe the pope is wildly off base in seeking a government that takes vs a society that gives. All these countries that espouse socialism deal with great levels of poverty. I do believe the pope has excellent qualities in areas unrelated to economics

So the Church has no problem with violence and killing?

The pope did not endorse socialism. Pope Francis, and even Pope Benedict XVI, generally looked favorably on European social democracy like that practiced in Sweden and Germany.

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