Is Purgatory Real


#1

When Jesus died on the cross he said “It is Finnished”. Salvation is by grace through Faith not by works lest any man should boast. I don’t need to go to purgatory to work on things. Christ is sufficient. He told the theif on the cross"This day you shall be with me in paradise" not after some time to work out your salvation in purgatory. I just don’t see the doctrine of purgatory in God’s word. The message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perrishing. My faith rests in Faith alone through Christ alone.

Mike


#2

Mike,

Purgatory is real. It is also Biblical. Have you ever listened to Fr. Corapi on EWTN? Check it out. He gives an excellent explanation.

God bless.

mom4truth


#3

Mike, have you forgot that Jesus did not allow Magdalene to touch Him because He had not yet been with His Father? This is three days after He died.

So, how could he said “This day you shall be with me in paradise”?

A little conversation:

Your friend: Hey Mike! Let’s go to a coffee bar
Mike: Sure.
Your friend: (taking you to a coffee bar, but he stops for gasoline).
Mike: Why do you stop here? Why didn’t you tell me.
Your friend: …

What do you expect your friend say? :wink:


#4

I’m a new Catholic so if I don’t get this quite right then would a more educated Catholic jump in and correct me??

Purgatory is sort of what non-catholic christians would call the different levels of heaven. We can absolutely not enter the kingdom of Heaven and present ourselves to God if we are unclean. So we believe that we go to purgatory to receive that cleansing.

Purgatory is a place to pay pennance for any sin we may have died with.

If you steal a car and get caught, you may be forgiven by the person who owns the car , but you still have to go to court and probably do some time. We must pay for the things we have done.

The thief on the cross next to Jesus was paying his pennance here on earth and he paid dearly… he paid with suffering and his life… He asked for forgiveness…He may at that point have had no pennance left to pay… He may very well have seen the face of God that day… He may also have went to purgatory to continue to pay pennance for other things.

Do you honestly believe that someone like Charles Manson can ask for forgiveness a few seconds before his death and go to the same place Mother Teresa went in the same amount of time??? If that be the case then why would be ever try to live a good life?? Just live like you want to and then hope you’ve got a split second to ask for forgiveness before you die.

The bible speaks of different levels of heaven and of hell (There is a special place in hell for liars). Purgatory is just a separate level on your way to heaven. Pennance will be paid here.

I’m not good with quoting scripture but there is a passage that says something about the Holy Spirit like “for this you will not receive forgiveness in this life nor in the next”. Why would this even be said if there wasn’t somewhere that forgiveness can be given in the next life???

If the most holy christian person you know, who has really lived a good life … does something stupid like curses his wife during an arguement, leaves, jumps angrily into his car and has a car accident, and dies… does he go to hell??? I hope not or a lot of good christian people will end up in hell. Well, he can’t immediately go to heaven if the last things he did on this earth were sinful.

Are your garments spottless?? Are they white as snow?? Thats the only way to see the face of God.

Being a Christian is not being perfect. We have all sinned and come short of the glory of God. WE ARE SINNERS striving to sin no more. But only the sin free shall immediately enter the gates of Heaven, the rest of us will enter purgatory and hope that people here on earth are praying for us.

:slight_smile:


#5

You would probably get more replies to your question if you would post in the “Apologetics” section instead of the prayer section.

God bless!!


#6

Post in the Apologetics forums, unless you are asking for prayers for you to understand this truth. Well, whether you are asking for them or not, I am sending them up for you :smiley:


#7

Sorry but, but you are contradicting scripture if you hold to that,

forums.catholic.com/showpost.php?p=2611084&postcount=38

If its as simple as faith alone, why can’t you support that with the bible?


#8

None of what you have stated is actually what the Catholic Church teaches concerning this nor are you correct when you assert that it is not found in the Bible.

Allow me to link you to my answer to this.
Biblical and Jewish Traditional Beliefs About Purgatory


#9

Gee, you’re in for an unpleasant surprise :smiley:


#10

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Biblical and Jewish Traditional Beliefs About Purgatory

I believe citing a false teaching as proof of RC teaching is a mistake, Michael. Jews do not believe in Purgatory, nor is there any Purgatory in Jewish teaching.

What many Jews do believe and teach is a temporary Gehenna which our Lord explicitly taught as false. Christ taught a permanent Gehenna as a counter to the false doctrine you link to.

By citing Jewish doctrine here, you are citing the false doctrine of a temporary Hell as “proof” of Purgatory. This only undermines your own apologetic, IMO. I would not post that link again.


#11

as proof of RC teaching is a mistake, Michael. Jews do not believe in Purgatory, nor is there any Purgatory in Jewish teaching.

What many Jews do believe and teach is a temporary Gehenna which our Lord explicitly taught as false. Christ taught a permanent Gehenna as a counter to the false doctrine you link to.

By citing Jewish doctrine here, you are citing the false doctrine of a temporary Hell as “proof” of Purgatory. This only undermines your own apologetic, IMO. I would not post that link again.

…You tell 'em then, because those things were shared with me by very orthodox Jews. One of whom is a member here at CAF! :stuck_out_tongue:

In fact, I have come to realize that most non-Jews are about clueless as to what those folks really believe.

You are talking about something completely else than what they have told me…and since you hold beliefs that I find unscriptural anyway…that settles the issue to me…but thanks anyway.


#12

A very good description for as you say a “New Catholic” you put me to shame, well put.


#13

Right. What exactly was finished? Jesus’ suffering to pay for our sins was finished. What does that have to do with purgatory?

Catholics don’t believe that purgatory saves us. Just the opposite — only those who have been saved can get into purgatory. Those who die unsaved can never enter purgatory or heaven.

Really? You are perfect? Cool.

Sufficient for what? Sufficient to redeem us? Of course.

Paradise — NOT heaven. Jesus didn’t ascend to heaven until after the resuerrection (Acts 1:10) so He wsn’t in paradise on the day He died. Instead, Scripture says He spent those three days preaching to the souls in prison – the souls of the just who were waiting for His redemption (1 Peter 3:19).

2 Macc 12:43-46.

Amen. I love this verse. There’s an awesome Petra song called “Fools’ Gold” that I always think of when I read this verse. The bridge says, “Some may call me foolish, some may call me odd, but I’d rather be a fool in the eyes of man than a fool in the eyes of God.”

Really? I believe what the Bible says, “You see that a man is justified by works and NOT by faith alone.” (James 2:24).


#14

Do you all think this would better be placed in apologetics? I’m not sure …


#15

This was a “Drive By Posting”.

The OC’s Last Activity: Aug 5, '07 10:45 pm

He wasn’t looking for a reply, just posting to save us Catholic *heathen.:stuck_out_tongue: *

May God bless and keep him!


#16

Even so, it’s a good exercise for us Catholics to know how to defend the faith. Friends, remember, the Church does NOT officially say Purgatory is a PLACE…only that it’s a process…and it doesn’t explain “time” in purgatory because…frankly, how important is “time” in eternity?


#17
  1. Did Jesus’ death on the cross cause everyone to stop sinning?

  2. Will you be perfectly sanctified at the moment of your death?


#18

Just trying to help.

That apologetic is very broken. You cite the doctrine of a temporary Hell (a false doctrine that contradicts RC teaching) as somehow proof of Catholic doctrine.

This only makes it more obvious that Purgatory is false as well.


#19

(a false doctrine that contradicts RC teaching) as somehow proof of Catholic doctrine.

This only makes it more obvious that Purgatory is false as well.

… :rolleyes: This from someone who accepts some variant of Sola Scriptura… Talk about “broken apologetics”:stuck_out_tongue:

Even without the Jewish references the scriptures are just as valid…

But you won’t accept that either…


#20

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