Is seduction against one's will rape?


#1

That is, if one didn't want sex and yet its initiation was forced on you and you subsequently accepted it, would that mean you were raped?

Sorry, it's a gross question but it had to be asked.


#2

Yes, that is rape.


#3

[quote="fakename, post:1, topic:319514"]
That is, if one didn't want sex and yet its initiation was forced on you and you subsequently accepted it, would that mean you were raped?

Sorry, it's a gross question but it had to be asked.

[/quote]

if this happen to you, go to the police and report it.


#4

by accept it, do you mean give in?

I think legally, the first 'no's are what count, because the 'yes' would be considered to have been under persuasion and not a real 'yes'.

Then again, other factors in the circumstances may also determine whether it is or isn't.


#5

[quote="fakename, post:1, topic:319514"]
That is, if one didn't want sex and yet its initiation was forced on you and you subsequently accepted it, would that mean you were raped?

Sorry, it's a gross question but it had to be asked.

[/quote]

Do you mean seduced or forced? They are not the same thing.


#6

Rape is when you do not want it, did not give in, and never submitted.

In the case of seduction, a person entices you. It isn't by force. You may not want to be enticed, but if you end up consenting then you changed your no to a yes and allowed it to proceed.


#7

If you "accepted" by force, then it's rape. When a woman says no, it's no. Giving in, to me, isn't exactly like giving permission. I'm not sure if that makes sense, of if I can explain any better. But some men won't take no for an answer. It's coercion, and forced.


#8

if one is forced against the will, even perhaps "giving in" because you feel you cannot stop what is happening, it is rape. report it and seek help! prayers for healing!


#9

Yes. That is rape. If you or someone you know experienced this, then a rape crisis center can help you. I doubt it is uncommon that victims give in to avoid more injuries.

Also, the question is not gross. The rapist is gross.


#10

I have a problem with the question because it contradicts itself. Seduction by nature, isn’t against the will. If a man seduces a woman to have sex, she submitted her own will because she wanted to. This isn’t rape. Otherwise you could claim sex was rape anytime. Yes really means no.

Force is different, and it includes physical force or a threat of physical force. This is rape.


#11

As other have said, it depends on what exactly you mean.

What you describe here, depending on your meaning, may be interpreted as something many married couples may do frequently…where one spouse isn’t in the mood but the other spouse initiates things anyway and the first spouse accepts it. Nothing wrong with that, but perhaps that not what you mean?


#12

Yes I would agree. Thanks for the responses because they helped me figure this question out.


#13

I think further clarification is needed to give you a satisfactory and accurate response.


#14

Yeah, I was reading into your choice of the word force. Married couples don't force sex on one another. It's more about persistence. Force, for me, implies violence of some kind.


#15

[quote="underacloud, post:11, topic:319514"]
As other have said, it depends on what exactly you mean.

What you describe here, depending on your meaning, may be interpreted as something many married couples may do frequently...where one spouse isn't in the mood but the other spouse initiates things anyway and the first spouse accepts it. Nothing wrong with that, but perhaps that not what you mean?

[/quote]

But I wouldn't say that initiation is usually 'forced' on the unwilling spouse. There's a big difference between one merely politely initiating when the other was unready and one forcing themselves onto another who wasn't ready.

By the way, some spouses certainly have been known to quite literally force sex on each other. So rape can certainly happen within marriages too, and it has been prosecuted as a crime like any other rape would be.


#16

[quote="LilyM, post:15, topic:319514"]
But I wouldn't say that initiation is usually 'forced' on the unwilling spouse. There's a big difference between one merely politely initiating when the other was unready and one forcing themselves onto another who wasn't ready.

By the way, some spouses certainly have been known to quite literally force sex on each other. So rape can certainly happen within marriages too, and it has been prosecuted as a crime like any other rape would be.

[/quote]

I completely agree with you.

That's why I was saying it depends on what the OP meant. The term seduction usually implies something other than force.

As Jimmy said above, seduction by nature isn't against the will. I can seduce my wife, of course. I'd say I can even forcefully seduce my wife (depending again on precise meanings of words). But I can't literally force sex against her will; but then that wouldn't be seduction anyway.


#17

I think what a lot of men (myself included) forget at times, is that the average man is going to be significantly stronger than the average woman. For example, my wife takes way better care of herself but I'm still much stronger. That is often the case.

So if that's true, then for a woman in a private 1 on 1 situation with a man, that can be a lot more intimidating than we guys might think. Now if she knows the man well enough, of if she's his wife that's obviously different. But if she doesn't know him well enough, and if he's coming on to her, then that can be quite scary - because she knows that she would have a tough time fighting back.

So I would urge any men in such a situation, if you're seeking sex, then I caution you to tread very lightly, because while you may not have any bad intentions, you may be more intimidating to the woman than you realize.

Of course, men and women shouldn't be having sex outside of marriage anyway, but that's another matter.


#18

I agree this is WAY too much of a "gray area", and would depend on the individual circumstance.

Say you and your spouse go to bed. You're very tired, and just want to go to sleep. Spouse starts initiating sex ("seducing" you). You say "I'm really tired. I just want to go to sleep tonight. I'm sorry, hon. We'll do it tomorrow." Spouse keeps initiating (rubbing back, kissing neck, etc.). You sigh. "Seriously. I'm tired. I just want to go to sleep. Stop it." Spouse doesn't stop. Your body starts to respond (because you're human). "Ugh. I'm TIRED!!" Spouse continues, so, you roll over and "give in." (and of course, enjoy it, but are probably irritated when you wake up the next morning still tired because you didn't get to go right to sleep like you wanted to). This isn't rape. I don't know if the OP is talking about an unmarried, who, say went back to one or the other's "place" after a date, and something similiar happened (except maybe the objection was "no, we're not married/I don't know you well enough, etc.). I'm not sure that could be considered rape, either, though. Unless the person told the other person to leave, and they wouldn't, and continued the "seduction" while the person CONTINUALLY said "no" the entire time. Absent some show of force or threat of force, that's the only way (saying "no" the whole time, not just once) I can see how it could possibly be considered rape.

In Christ,
Ellen


#19

[quote="jimmy, post:10, topic:319514"]
I have a problem with the question because it contradicts itself. Seduction by nature, isn't against the will. If a man seduces a woman to have sex, she submitted her own will because she wanted to. This isn't rape. Otherwise you could claim sex was rape anytime. Yes really means no.

Force is different, and it includes physical force or a threat of physical force. This is rape.

[/quote]

I agree, the question contradicts itself. Seduction is seduction; it is not rape. Everyone is trying to answer a hypothetical set of circumstances, left open by the question.


#20

A few points.

  1. If seduction is rape, then all sex is rape. Seduction is the act of convincing someone to freely partake of the desired act. It is always part of sex. Something is seductive if it makes you want to submit or participate. Sex is always preceded by some form of seduction.

  2. If seduction is rape, then women aren't equal to men because they are no longer responsible for their own decisions. They have freely abrogated responsibility, so they are inferior. Now only men are to bless or to blame if two people have sex. The woman was just seduced.

Then again men could probably claim that women seduced them? 'Your honor, it was the way she dressed. It was her big breasts. I couldn't help myself. She raped me your honor.' so now we have both abrogated our responsibility, and denied our own free will. So no one is responsible if they have sex, because it was all just seduction. But, I have never heard a man deny his own responsibility (unless he is a complete dueshbag and probably a rapist).
3. Hell doesn't exist, or atleast no humans are there. After all, who has ever committed evil without first being seduced by evil? No one acts with a pure mind and a pure will that is free from all error, so no one is to Blame for their sins since they were seduced by evil.

  1. As was already implied, free will doesn't exist. You aren't to blame for your own actions, because you were seduced. It was all against your will.

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