Is the Church the same as when Peter was in the chair?


#1

Someone is accusing the Church as not being the same one that Jesus started, therefore no longer the TRUE Church.

I’ve already started a thread where the link is inserted (where Sir Knight and I are discussing this) forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?p=1061930#post1061930

I’m wondering what you guys think? Is our Church the same or has it changed? How would you defend against this? I think both Sir Knight and I are in need of advice.


#2

Could you give the post numbers for where you were dicussing it? I don’t think I answered the right charge (though I hope someone finds it usefull.


#3

Of course the Church is not exactly the same. The church is like a tree that is constantly growing and developing. Dogma and Doctrine continue to develop through divine revelation. There are a number of doctrines that may not have been taught explicitly by the apostles or early fathers. It is impossible for Jesus, the Apostles, or early fathers to have been able to cover everything that had to be covered. Therefore, the Church continues on developing Ecumenical Council after Ecumenical Council and Papal ex cathedra statements after Papal ex cathedra statements. Especially in our day and age when new challenges continue to arise. Artificial Contraception, embrionic stem cell research, and gay marriage was probably never imagined by the early church. But, today there is a need for faith and moral guidance by the Holy Spirit through the Magisterium. Therefore, some doctrines we have today were probably not explicitly taught back then, but this does not at all mean that they’re not true. Far from it, it means that the Church is alive and not something stuck in the past. Also, all of the doctrines and dogmas have a scriptural and traditional backing. Christ’s church is unshakeable and alive!


#4

Of course it’s changed. Because the world has changed. But it hasn’t changed in essentials. Doctrine hasn’t changed. The Eucharist hasn’t changed.

St. Peter didn’t have a Roman Curia to help with administration. He didn’t need one. There was no Canon Law in AD 33. As the Church grew, the need for these things arose. Those things among other are not essentials, but matters of discipline, practice, and administration.

In a similar way, one could look at the thirteen colonies of the United States at the formation of the union, and say, “It’s no longer the same country! Things have changed!”

Of course things have changed. But it’s still the same country.

And it’s still the same Church.


#5

I think the only question worth asking is:

Has it changed with regard to requirements for eternal salvation?

I think the answer is no.


#6

**Someone is accusing the Church as not being the same one that Jesus started, therefore no longer the TRUE Church. **

** Is the Church the same as when Peter was in the chair?**

Which question is it that you are asking? Is it about the development of the Church as question 2 implies or is it, is the Catholic Church the true church Jesus initiated, as question 1 suggests?


#7

John, I’m asking both questions, which, to me is actually only one question.

I know that the chair that Peter occupied was the TRUE Church that Jesus Himself started, is there any doubt for you?

I misread your question I think. I don’t think you doubt the existance of the true Church.

I’m asking both questions though


#8

I want to thank you guys for these views. I don’t seem to know how to think around the questions anymore… thank goodness for you guys.


#9

[quote=Loboto-Me]John, I’m asking both questions, which, to me is actually only one question.

I know that the chair that Peter occupied was the TRUE Church that Jesus Himself started, is there any doubt for you?
[/quote]

No there is no doubt for me. I also know that the Church is ever the same and ever new. I know that it is the one true Church and if Jesus can’t get it right who can? I do not think it needs to be ‘updated’ to reflect the ‘times’.
I visited the web site that you posted. My reaction is 'there are none so blind as those with eyes who will not see and none so deaf as those with ears who will not hear." My suggestion is that your time would be better spent in prayer rather than in tilting with windmills. I don’t believe there are ears or eyes for you to reach there. God bless you for trying though.


#10

I know that in doctrine, beliefs, and teachings from the Word of God, the Catholic Church has not changed. When it comes to disciplines, traditions, customs, yes, it has changed, in some cases very dramatically.

But the one thing that has always been there for us is Jesus Christ. He is all around us, He here on earth through the Eucharist. Always has been, always will! :thumbsup:


#11

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