Is the God inspired account of the Lord Jesus’ death on the cross in KJV, NKJV & NASB true?


#1

No-one in the “No need for crucifix’s” tread has proven that the God inspired account of the Lord Jesus’ death on the cross in the KJV, NKJV, NASB are not 100% true.

So now we know that the following Bible versions KJV, NKJV, NAS do give us God’s 100% true account of the Lord Jesus’ the death on the cross. So with this true fact in mind i again state that true followers of the Lord Jesus will read God’s Word to see a 100% true picture of the Lord Jesus’ death on the cross and they won’t look at a false man made image of the Lord Jesus on the cross. The image is false because no man can recreate in image form the terrible suffering the Lord Jesus endured on the cross. Only God can give us a 100% true account of the suffering of the Lord Jesus on the cross and He has done this in His written Word.

It’s also very clear to me that the people who have posted attacks on the Word of God in this tread to support a man made idea are in fact vainly trying to attack God, Who inspired men to write His Word, 2 Peter 1:20-21.

Why did God inspire Matt, Mark, Luke & John to write about the Lord Jesus’ death on the cross? Why didn’t God inspire/instruct them to make an image of the Lord Jesus on the cross? I mean God can do anything but in His great wisdom He chose to reveal to His followers the account of the Lord Jesus’ death on the cross via the written Word and not through man made images.

Matt, Mark, Luke & John were inspired by God to write the 100% true account of the Lord Jesus’ death on the cross during the 1st century at the beginning of the church. Their God inspired written accounts of the Lord Jesus’ death on the cross were passed onto the followers of the Lord Jesus in the 1st century church.

Now no-where in the God inspired written account of the 1st century church(NT) do we read anything about the followers of the Lord Jesus making images of Him on the cross, nor is there any instruction to make man made images of the Lord Jesus on the cross. It’s so plainly obvious that man made images of the Lord Jesus on the cross are not needed because God has given us His 100% true account of the Lord Jesus’ death on the cross in His Word, the sacred Scriptures. Again God in His perfect wisdom has chosen to reveal the account of the Lord Jesus’ death on the cross in His written Word.

One of the many evidences that man made images of the Lord Jesus is totally false is that it tries to put man equal to or even above God. This true fact is clearly demonstrated by the attacks on Gods pure, perfect and powerful Word in the “No need for crucifix’s” tread and any attack on Gods Word, the Sacred Scriptures is really a satanic attack on God, Who is the author of His pure and perfect Word.


#2

I think you’re setting up a false dichotomy here. You seem to imply that the presence of an image of the Crucifixion completely supplants the Gospel account of the same for the Christian. However, this is hardly the case–indeed, an image of the Crucifixion helps make the reality expressed in the words of the Gospel more real, more visible. Just as illustrations in books help to make what is expressed in them more clear, so does the crucifix help us to see more clearly Christ’s sacrifice on Calvary. This is just like if I’d read an account of a Civil War battle–I wasn’t physically there, and so I can’t have known what it looked like without the help of some visual aid. Just the same, I wasn’t physically at Calvary (although in a certain sense, I was at Calvary, as was everyone else, but that’s a different point). So when I read the Gospel account, it is hard to imagine the immense suffering that Our Lord went through merely from the words that are there. Images, then, are an aid to our devotion.

In short, we needn’t set this up as an either/or proposition, as no Catholic ever would through the use of images. The reality of the Incarnation is made more visibly present to us through images of the Nativity, the reality of the events of Christ’s life are made visible in art, and the reality of his death is made visible through Crucifixes. We do not regard these images as equal to Christ, but merely as an aid to our devotion to him–they help us to better see him and what he went through.

I’d go so far as to say that it’s a tad presumptive to say that we worship these images or that they supplant the Gospels–our true intent is far from this.

-ACEGC


#3

Asa,

What do you make of Galatians 3:1:

O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publiclyportrayed as crucified?

“Before whose eyes” would seem to indicate some sort of visual image. “Publicly portrayed” means that this was seen by many. This may just be an eidetic image for the verbal proclalmation of the Gospel, but it certainly leaves room for speculation on the possibility that images might have been involved.

But as Edward George notes, an image does not falsify nor take anything away from the Gospel. Nobody thinks that a crucifix is “better than” Scripture or even equal to it. Where do you get such an idea?


#4

Using your logic we also shouldn’t read Scripture, because nowhere in Scripture does it say to write a single word! Yet Scripture is true! Jesus never ordered any word to be written! Scriptures were written, why? Jesus teaches to preach orally, not via a written message. Using your logic if it isn’t spoken, as opposed to read it shouldn’t be used. How silly, God gives us senses to say we shouldn’t use images from our visual sense is to reject Gods gift of sight! What a strange argument.


#5

Your argument is false in erroneously thinking that a crucifix attempts to recreate “100%” of anything!

I didn’t read all 151 posts, so I may have missed the one where anyone attacked Scripture, would you be so kind as to point it out?


#6

Where in the NT does Jesus reveal we are not to make an image of Him? I can understand the OT prohibition of false images, after all we had no idea what God looked like, but after the incarnation we knew exactly what God looked like didn’t we? Where, in the NT, does it say God didn’t inspire the artist who recreated the image on the crucifix? Simply because you say so? I think not, God inspire a lot of artists, writers, and heck even simple people like me.


#7

100% true. Do you mean 100% of what was written was true? If so I agree. If you mean they wrote absolutely 100% of what happened absolutely not. They did not write 100% of what occurred. Nowhere in Scripture does it say they even attempted that, in fact Scripture is quite clear that everything was not written.

[quote=www.drbo.org] John 21, 25 But there are also many other things which Jesus did; which, if they were written every one, the world itself, I think, would not be able to contain the books that should be written.
[/quote]


#8

Actually this isn’t true, there are artifacts from the first century catacombs which depict the crucifix.


#9

Again, I saw no attack of Scripture, I did see attack on your reasoning. You’re trying to say an attack on your idea is an attack on the Word of God, that isn’t true.


#10

You are essentially saying that the making and use of a crucifix is an attempt to replace the Gospel. That is absolutely NOT the intent.

A crucifix is meant as a reminder of Christ’s great love for us, not a revelation of it. We don’t claim that the crucifix is divinely inspired; it’s merely a representation of something that is. Like all art, it is meant to communicate truth, and it does so by allowing us to visualize the suffering Christ endured, thereby making His love all the more comprehensible.

We don’t intend to “recreate in image form” Christ’s suffering, only to represent it in visual form. You might just as well say that any painting of Christ is blasphemous because we can’t possibly recreate His nose or eyebrows factually.

It is utterly false to say that the crucifix is contrary to Scripture, since nowhere in Scripture are we forbidden to make them. It is ugly and unChristian to imply that we who use the crucifix as the symbol of our faith (because it is a symbol of the defining moment in mankind’s existence) are committing “Satanic attacks” on Scripture.

Finally, the plural of crucifix is CRUCIFICES – or at least crucifixes.

Peace,
Dante


#11

I told this guy that on the other thread. :shrug:

I think he’s just trying to find pretenses to bash the Catholic Church. :rolleyes:


#12

1. Why mention those translations in particular ?

  1. How is anyone denying what the gospels say about the Passion :shrug: :confused: ?

#13

Asa, it is that imperfect image in the crucifix that reminds us - that which it represents…that being the perfect sacrifice of Our Lord and Savior on the cross. A crucifix is merely a humble tool we mere men use to help lift our hearts and minds to the contemplation of Divine.

And by the way - the devil hates our hearts and minds being lifted in such ways. The devil hates anything that reminds us or causes us to think about Our Lord.

Be careful.

And peace in Christ,

DustinsDad


#14

Why do people want to look at what you describe an “imperfect” image when you have a perfect description of the Lord Jesus’ perfect sacrifice from the Almighty God in His written Word?

Also does it not concern you that people are looking a man made images instead of looking at, meditating on God’s written Word?

Does the satan like God’s Word, the Sacred Scriptures and would satan want to keep people from looking at, meditating on God’s precious Word?


#15

Are not words–especially translations, which are not themselves inspired–also man-made images?

Besides, the crucifix is not a man-made image in the sense that the crucifixion is according to the plan of God–the image of the crucifix helps us to reflect on this divinely-ordained salvific event.

If you don’t like the use of crucifixes, don’t use them. But don’t call it “satanic” when some of us choose to remember Our Lord’s sacrifice by staring the reality of it straight in the face.

-ACEGC


#16

The Written Word is the infallible account of the crucifixion - without error and Divinely Inspired in a unique way - but I don’t know that I would call it a perfect image of the crucifixion, I don’t believe it was intended as such. Even the gospel accounts of the crucifixion don’t go into the minute detail of exactly what a crucifixion was. As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words, so to speak - at least in terms of describing an event or something. The reality of the crucifixion, that perfect sacrifice of Our Lord on the cross, we believe by Grace because of the preaching and teaching of the Church (which includes God’s Written and Oral traditoin) Christ established can also be expressed visually using the God-given talents of artistic expression.

God made us this way my friend - we are reasonable and intellectual creatures that can and do use symbols to communicate ideas above and beyond the symbol being used. We are not animals my friend. Our Lord didn’t die on the cross to redeem German Shephards.

Faithful Christians do both. Do you?

Yes he would - along with anything and everything that draws and lifts their hearts and minds up to the contemplation of the Divine. This means the Written Word and any other expressions of Our Lord’s sacrifice.

Peace in Christ,

DustinsDad


#17

Do the children in Sunday school at your church color in pictures of Christ? Why? We have a perfect picture of Christ in the bible! Do you have a manger scene with a baby Jesus? Why? We have a perfect description of this in the Bible!

Do you have an empty cross in your church? Why? We have a perfect description in the Bible!

Should we destroy all art that portrays Christ? By your logic concerning the Crucifix we should.

Piffle.


#18

From reading all your comments it’s clear to me that there isn’t an attitude of reverence and respect for the blessed Lord Jesus. The reason I say this is because there isn’t any concern about the true fact that the man made images of the Lord Jesus are false because no man made image can recreate the awesome sacrificial death of the blessed Lord Jesus on the cross.

The Lord Jesus is truly awesome and what the Lord Jesus did on the cross is so, so truly awesome. When I read the God inspired account of the Lord Jesus’ death on the cross in the Sacred Scriptures im truly amazed at His great awesome sacrifice.

The false man made images of the Lord Jesus on the cross are a gross insult to our blessed Lord Jesus and to what He did on the cross. I mean how dare any feeble man make a false image of the Lord Jesus on the cross and take away from what the blessed Lord Jesus did on the cross. I have seen false man made images of the Lord Jesus on the cross and they’re all so sanitized, they don’t show the true terrible suffering and agony that the Lord Jesus endured on the cross.

The truth is no man made image can recreate what the Lord Jesus did on the cross and any attempt by any person to do this is a gross insult to the blessed Lord Jesus. The God inspired 100% true account of the Lord Jesus’ death on the cross tells us what actually happened to the Lord Jesus on the cross. God’s 100% true account of the Lord Jesus’ death on the cross truly gives honor and glory to the Lord Jesus.

As for the comments about the making of crosses being the same as the making of images of the blessed Lord Jesus on the cross, well this is another gross insult to the Lord Jesus. I mean to equate the Lord Jesus with a piece of wood is a disgrace, many people died on crosses.

It doesn’t concern me when someone makes an image of the cross. What concerns me is that it is a gross insult to the Lord Jesus is to make a false image of Him on the cross but people say these images help me, it doesn’t matter about me, these false man made images are a gross insult to the Lord Jesus!

Also there’s no need for false man made images of the Lord Jesus on the cross to help people to remember His perfect sacrifice because God has give us His inspired 100% true account of the Lord Jesus’ death on the cross in His written Word, the Sacred Scriptures.


#19

Thank you for sharing.


#20

You are not really addressing anything anyone here has said.

Now Asa, I commended your zeal on another thread (regarding the necessity of Jesus for salvation) - now I can see that zeal can sometimes blind one to the truth. It seems your zeal is not so much for Christ as against His Church.

And I’d remind you of what you already know…you need Jesus for Salvation - that means trusting Him in everything - every minute detail of what He has given and commanded us. And with that, I’ll close with this from Sacred Scripture: ***Matthew 18:17-18
*****And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican. **
This Church Jesus commanded you to listen to has said that the use of crucifixes is not only allowed, but good and benificial - they lift the hearts and minds of the faithful up to the contemplation of the Divine.

Refuse to listen to the Church, and you refuse Christ - who you acknowledge apart from there is no salvation.

Peace in Christ,

DustinsDad


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