Posted this in the eastern forums figuring the east uses Allah more. I could be wrong? Say it ain’t so! And I do not want to use YHWH, I know I just did, cuz that offended some one. So let’s try again here.
Shoot. I should have put unsure as a poll option . Post if unsure if u like.
Whilst Church documents and Popes say what they say about the Muslim religion, it doesn’t have the same Holy Scriptures as the Hebrew and Christian faiths, or the information based on those Scriptures.
The language is irrelevant. God, Allah, Gott, Dios, Khoda, Dieu, Theos, Deus, Jumala, Gud, Olloh, Deu, Diyos, Duw, Bapa, Abba – these and many others can refer to the same Deity. So we must be careful to correctly observe the context in order to understand to Whom/whom we are referring.
For example, Mormons use the names “Father,” “Son,” and “Holy Spirit,” but they understand these to be three separate deities, rather than the persons of the one, true, Triune God (this is why Mormon baptism is no real Baptism at all). Obviously, their god cannot be the same God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Moses. This also applies to the false god of Islam; Islam’s “Allah” is not the true ‘Allah’ of Christianity.
In a word, NO.
Edited poll for you…
Can we all agree that the God of Jacob was the God of Abraham? I would hope so.
841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church
It is not a matter of opinion. The church teaching is clear on this topic. The objective answer to the OP’s question is YES. It is not open to discussion or polls or opinions.
What he said…
Judaism has believed virtually forever that Muslims worship the same G-d as Jews. Both religions are based on the G-d of Abraham and both are strictly monotheistic. They also share similar dietary laws, as well as moral values. Even the most Orthodox Jews are, according to Jewish law, allowed to enter a mosque. It took a while longer for many Jews to acknowledge that Christians also worship the same G-d as Jews, due to Christianity’s belief in a Trinitarian G-d. Some Jews, particularly some of those who are Orthodox, still do not think Christians worship the same G-d as Jews and Muslims although this is contrary to Jewish teaching.
Isn’t it, though? Putting aside the fact that your church does not hold your catechism to be infallible, your church is quite clever in her wording here; “these profess to hold the faith of Abraham.” The pertinent word here is “profess.” But do Muslims actually hold the faith of Abraham? On that, your catechism is (perhaps intentionally for the sake of maintaining peace and good communication) silent.
Put another way: I ‘profess’ in earnest to be a big-C Catholic, just not one in communion with Rome. Does that make me Catholic from your view?
Absolutely. Jacob [peace be upon him] was a righteous man and a prophet. He believed in Tawheed, just as muslims believe in it.
Pretty much this. Our concept of God cannot be separated from our worship of God. The only Muslim who worships the true God is the Muslim who does not understand his religion or has not heard of true religion and knows nothing else (and even with that latter point I am hesitant to say that is definitely the case).
I disagree that the key word is “profess” since the latter term does not generally indicate anything false or questionable. And, in particular, it appears to be used by the CCC, according to the context of the whole passage, to mean that Muslims do in fact believe in the faith of Abraham. Granted, from your faith’s perspective, the nature of G-d may be distorted by Islam, as it must also then be by Judaism, since neither religion has a trinitarian notion of G-d as does Christianity; nonetheless, all three religions do profess to worship the same G-d of Abraham and Jacob.
No, if you don’t acknowledge the Son then you don’t have the Father either. 1John 2:23.
Thank you , sir. Most kind of you .
Could you explain what your religion means to another layman ? And you being from Illinois, should your emblem or avatar be Chicago or ND? :rotfl: Seriously, will you still splain after saying that?
And I appreciate the candiidness and variety of religious backgrounds.
Found this link. Fits this thread.
Sure. The source is generally thought to be a certain monk from the Holy Roman Empire. It means, ‘simultaneously sinner and saint.’
I may currently reside in Illinois, but I was born in the “holy city” of Green Bay. Christianity might be my faith, but the Packers are certainly my religion.
Perhaps, and your point is a fair one. But neither of us being Roman Catholic, I guess we’ll never know.
From my Faith’s perspective, yes, Islam has distorted the very nature of the true Allah into an unrecognizable Law-Giver. While the same could be applied to some Jewish schools of thought (and I hope speaking frankly is more helpful than offensive), it might not apply to those Jews who do look forward to the coming of the Messiah, but simply have not identified Him because of whatever circumstances.
I should probably add that while my Faith holds Jesus to be the sole Way, Truth, and Life by Whom believers come to eternal life (John 14), we do not pretend to know whether God accepts the earnest worship of other gods as if it were worship of Him. While it’s not likely Abraham understood God to be Triune, his faith was counted to him as righteousness. (Romans 4)