Is the "Jesus of the Bible God?"


#1

If yes what ought our response be?

If NO then what is the role of "this bible Jesus?"


#2

Yes although I was taught that this may have come as a revelation to Jesus, that he was God. In Johns Gospel (90 ad) is where we see the high Christology and throughout Johns Gospel we see that John is saying Jesus is God.

John 1:1

In the beginning* was the Word,

and the Word was with God,

and the Word WAS God.


#3

[quote="LittleFlower378, post:2, topic:286297"]
Yes although I was taught that this may have come as a revelation to Jesus, that he was God. In Johns Gospel (90 ad) is where we see the high Christology and throughout Johns Gospel we see that John is saying Jesus is God.

John 1:1

In the beginning* was the Word,

and the Word was with God,

and the Word WAS God.

[/quote]

I thought all Christians believed this (yes, there are some denominations that question this but I would not call them Christian -- or to be more charitable -- "orthodox Christians")

and, also from the Gospel of John, my favorite apostle (perhaps because I identify too much in my shortcomings): "My Lord and my God."


#4

"and, also from the Gospel of John, my favorite apostle (perhaps because I identify too much in my shortcomings): “My Lord and my God.” "

Yes that is a great one too. They call St.Thomas a doubter but in all reality that statement is a statement of faith!


#5

=billt9;9353636]I thought all Christians believed this (yes, there are some denominations that question this but I would not call them Christian -- or to be more charitable -- "orthodox Christians")

and, also from the Gospel of John, my favorite apostle (perhaps because I identify too much in my shortcomings): "My Lord and my God."

OK:)

But "to believe means what to you?"

God Bless,
pat /PJM


#6

[quote="PJM, post:1, topic:286297"]
If yes what ought our response be?

If NO then what is the role of "this bible Jesus?"

[/quote]

Of course Jesus is God. There is plenty of scriptural evidence to confirm it. I once had a JW tell me Jesus never claimed to be God. Oh yeah? But he also never claims to have been an archangel either-eh? Not one NT writer ever debunks Jesus is God because he was merely a creature (archangel).


#7

=Nicea325;9354033]Of course Jesus is God. There is plenty of scriptural evidence to confirm it. I once had a JW tell me Jesus never claimed to be God. Oh yeah? But he also never claims to have been an archangel either-eh? Not one NT writer ever debunks Jesus is God because he was merely a creature (archangel).

Actually Jesus Did [and DOES] claim to be God::thumbsup:

John.10: 30 "I and the Father are one."

God Bless you,
pat /PJM


#8

[quote="PJM, post:5, topic:286297"]
OK:)

But "to believe means what to you?"

God Bless,
pat /PJM

[/quote]

I don't know exactly what you are asking, but I'll try.:)

Maybe I"ll start with your quote of AB Sheen. I believe the truth because it is the truth. In fact,I believe Jesus said he was "the truth." Jesus not only speaks truth; he is truth.

Jesus told Martha that those who "believe" in him have eternal life, and he asked her (paraphrasing), "Martha, do you believe me?" I believe him; I believe he told the truth (Pilate, of course, didn't)

John 3:16 says -- well you know what it says.

I believe Jesus is Lord, Christ died for our sins, and God raised him from the dead (Paul); all historical facts -- the truth. I believe that Christ made all that is (John). I believe that Jesus is fully God (and man); God the son but not God the Father.

And some other things too, but, pretty much, the Nicene Creed.

(PS by mentioning "historical facts" I do not mean to minimize obedience as well; "Jesus is Lord" means & demands faithfulness &obedience. I am the creature; he is the Creator, lord, and master.)

That is what I understood the question to be: "Is Jesus God?"


#9

[quote="PJM, post:7, topic:286297"]
Actually Jesus Did [and DOES] claim to be God::thumbsup:

John.10: 30 "I and the Father are one."

God Bless you,
pat /PJM

[/quote]

Oh I know Jesus does say he is God. Gospel of John-enough said! :thumbsup:


#10

[quote="Nicea325, post:9, topic:286297"]
Oh I know Jesus does say he is God. Gospel of John-enough said! :thumbsup:

[/quote]

My favorite; from John 13:13 -" You call me Master, and Lord; and you say well, for so I AM" DRB

:)

MJ


#11

[quote="MartinJordan, post:10, topic:286297"]
My favorite; from John 13:13 -" You call me Master, and Lord; and you say well, for so I AM" DRB

:)

MJ

[/quote]

:thumbsup:


#12

=billt9;9354185]I don't know exactly what you are asking, but I'll try.:)

Maybe I"ll start with your quote of AB Sheen. I believe the truth because it is the truth. In fact,I believe Jesus said he was "the truth." Jesus not only speaks truth; he is truth.

Jesus told Martha that those who "believe" in him have eternal life, and he asked her (paraphrasing), "Martha, do you believe me?" I believe him; I believe he told the truth (Pilate, of course, didn't)

John 3:16 says -- well you know what it says.

I believe Jesus is Lord, Christ died for our sins, and God raised him from the dead (Paul); all historical facts -- the truth. I believe that Christ made all that is (John). I believe that Jesus is fully God (and man); God the son but not God the Father.

And some other things too, but, pretty much, the Nicene Creed.

(PS by mentioning "historical facts" I do not mean to minimize obedience as well; "Jesus is Lord" means & demands faithfulness &obedience. I am the creature; he is the Creator, lord, and master.)

That is what I understood the question to be: "Is Jesus God?"

AWESOME response. THANKS:D

So if God "IS TRUTH" then how is it that Protestant are either:

  1. Unable or possibly
  2. Unwilling
  3. Either the Bible IS the Inspired WORDS of God [2nd. Tim. 3:16] in total or it worthless:o

To take God at His words?:shrug:

The Primacy of Peter
The Authority of the THEE Church
The Real Presence
Forgiveness of Sin
Salvation requirements

ALL have a solid biblcal foundation as taught, commanded, and mandated by Christ Himself.

How can this evident paradox exist:shrug:

God's continued blessings,

pat /PJM


#13

[quote="PJM, post:7, topic:286297"]
Actually Jesus Did [and DOES] claim to be God::thumbsup:

John.10: 30 "I and the Father are one."

God Bless you,
pat /PJM

[/quote]

I know this to be true. But the JW will tell you that John 10:30 means just that Jesus and God are of the same mind, they just think the same way not that Jesus is God.


#14

[quote="Phyllo, post:13, topic:286297"]
I know this to be true. But the JW will tell you that John 10:30 means just that Jesus and God are of the same mind, they just think the same way not that Jesus is God.

[/quote]

Are you saying the JWs don't bother noticing and questioning further in John 14:9 where Jesus admonishes Phillip - " Jesus saith to him: Have I been so long a time with you; and have you not known me? Philip, he that seeth me seeth the Father also. How sayest thou, Shew us the Father?"
:rolleyes:

MJ


#15

[quote="PJM, post:7, topic:286297"]
Actually Jesus Did [and DOES] claim to be God::thumbsup:

John.10: 30 "I and the Father are one."

God Bless you,
pat /PJM

[/quote]

He also used the term "I AM" for Himself, and said "before Abrerham was I AM". The term 'I AM" was, in the Old Testament, ment God. :)


#16

[quote="MartinJordan, post:14, topic:286297"]
Are you saying the JWs don't bother noticing and questioning further in John 14:9 where Jesus admonishes Phillip - " Jesus saith to him: Have I been so long a time with you; and have you not known me? Philip, he that seeth me seeth the Father also. How sayest thou, Shew us the Father?"
:rolleyes:

MJ

[/quote]

Hey MJ,

I am going to speak with a JW tomorrow and I'll ask her that question and I'll let you know the answer then.


#17

[quote="PJM, post:7, topic:286297"]
Actually Jesus Did [and DOES] claim to be God::thumbsup:

John.10: 30 "I and the Father are one."

God Bless you,
pat /PJM

[/quote]

But a JW would tell you that what comes after that verse, which is .."as we are one". So they would say are the apostles (who he was talking to ) equal to Jesus?

I like, "before Abraham was I AM" The same I AM is spoken from God the Father to Moses. No getting around this one.


#18

[quote="MartinJordan, post:14, topic:286297"]
Are you saying the JWs don't bother noticing and questioning further in John 14:9 where Jesus admonishes Phillip - " Jesus saith to him: Have I been so long a time with you; and have you not known me? Philip, he that seeth me seeth the Father also. How sayest thou, Shew us the Father?"
:rolleyes:

MJ

[/quote]

The JW sees this and will simply say the actions of Jesus are the actions of the Father. They will site that "no one can see God (on earth) and live". So Jesus can not be God.


#19

=Phyllo;9355963]I know this to be true. But the JW will tell you that John 10:30 means just that Jesus and God are of the same mind, they just think the same way not that Jesus is God.

STRANGE that:o

The Jews were going to stone Jesus because they ARE OF LIKE MIND:D

John 3: 30 "I and the Father are one." [31] The Jews took up stones again to stone him.
[32] Jesus answered them, "I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of these do you stone me?" [33] The Jews answered him, **"It is not for a good work that we stone you but for blasphemy; because you, being a man, make yourself God." ** :rolleyes:

Still, I had not heard this one before. THANKS,

pat /PJM


#20

=johnnyjones;9357251]But a JW would tell you that what comes after that verse, which is .."as we are one". So they would say are the apostles (who he was talking to ) equal to Jesus?

I like, "before Abraham was I AM" The same I AM is spoken from God the Father to Moses. No getting around this one.

At which point we PAUSE, smile and pull out the Catholic Bible and share:

John 10: [26"but you do not believe, because you do not belong to my sheep. [27] My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me; [28] and I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand. [29] My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. [30*] I and the Father are one." *
[31] The Jews took up stones again to stone him. [32] Jesus answered them, "I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of these do you stone me?"
[33] ***The Jews answered him, "It is not for a good work that we stone you but for blasphemy; because you, being a man, make yourself God
*."

There is AWAYS " a paul harvey LIKe "rest of the Story" with there responses:thumbsup:

God Bless,
pat /PJM


DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.