Is the spirituality of the Extraordinary Form compatible with the spirituality of the Catholic Charismatic Renewal?


#1

Is the spirituality of the Mass in the Extraordinary Form compatible with the spirituality of the Catholic Charismatic Renewal?

Both claim to be Catholic. Both claim support from popes.

Yes or no?

Why or why not?


#2

I think that is where the similarity ends. When I was much younger (a child), we went to our geographic parish because of a scheduling issue. What I saw back then didn’t sit too well with me, nor did it with my parents. It was “loose”.

Sometimes I have had to go back to my geographic parish for daily Mass (when I have missed the last possible one) and found that nothing has changed. The music is not solemn and folks believe that their way is THE way. Sadly, there are those who do not believe that the Sacrament of Confirmation is enough of a releaese of the Holy Spirit.

The EF, on the other hand, is solemnity to the maximum. There is a sense that something greater is happening and we are drawn deeper into that mystery.


#3

The spirituality of the EF is quiet, contemplative, and reverent, focusing entirely on God alone. Having people speak in tongues, or be slain in the spirit, would disrupt the Mass and it’s entire purpose.


#4

I have always had serious doubts as to the legitimacy of the Charismatic renewal for several reasons not the least of which is where it came from in the first place. While I in no way doubt that the charisms exist and that the Holy Spirit uses them to effect change in the world, I feel that the entire way that they are used in the renewal seems to mock the genuine use of the charisms. Instead of being used to better the community and to spread and deepen faith in Christ, they seem all too often now be be used to show how much holier one person is than the other.

.


#5

I voted “yes” with great (not grave) reservation. A third option of “perhaps” would have hit the mark

Having gratefully been involved with both, Charismatic Renewal is a people actively focused on God, and giving Thanksgiving. It is a loud and joyful form of Latria Worship, that could compete with the Joyfulness of Southern Baptist Praise.:smiley: :dancing: :extrahappy: :love: :bowdown2: :getholy: :gopray2:

I see that as a good and positive thing for those who can so participate and stay focused on Godly Worship The risk of course is that a great many Catholics, unaccustomed to this form, are distracted, and quickly revert to “people worship (in the sense that they are paying as much attention to what’s going on as to Godly worship!)” This puts them with a spiritual benefit comparable to today’s NO Mass.


#6

I didn’t answer the poll, because I’m not sure. There are a number of Charismatics who don’t believe that their Charismatic actions belong in the Mass and who are extremely orthodox. For those I think the EF is compatible and even possibly more compatible than the OF. However, there are many who are solely VII Catholics (if not somewhat Protestant in their worship) and for those I don’t see any real compatibility.:shrug:


#7

The spirituality of the EF is quiet, contemplative, and reverent, focusing entirely on God alone. Having people speak in tongues, or be slain in the spirit, would disrupt the Mass and it’s entire purpose.

DARN! I was looking forward to be slain in the spirit at the Traditional Latin Mass.


#8

One similarity: Both are where you find a much larger number of younger people in the congregation than in the “average” Ordinary Form Mass.


#9

Re: Is the spirituality of the Extraordinary Form compatible with the spirituality of the Catholic Charismatic Renewal?

That is like asking if Mother Teresa is more spiritual than Pope John Paul II.

Or if Saint Francis is more spiritual than Saint Thomas.

I have always liked the saying, “You can’t measure love in a teacup.”

I think that I will change that slightly and say, “You can’t measure spirituality in a teacup.”

God simply isn’t sitting up in Heaven measuring His children’s level of spirituality.


#10

The question is about compatibility, not level of spirituality.


#11

The Extraordinary Form is compatible with a deep connection with God on an emotional level, with a total handing over of oneself to the reality of the divine, and with every fruit of the Holy Spirit. I would say it is *very *compatible, in fact.

Like the form of a sonnet is fully open to expressing every emotion beautifully, so the Extraordinary Form is open to souls who in the totality of their spiritual lives express every charism that comes from God. Those charisms may not look or sound as they do in other settings, they may not express themselves overtly during the EF itself, but of course they may exist in the souls there!

The Catholic Charismatic Renewal is compatible with self-control, rather than chaos, in expression of every one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit. When St. Paul spoke of the outward expression of the spiritual gifts, he was very clear on that.

As long as the Holy Spirit is in charge, then, of course the two are totally compatible.

Not in theory, but just in my experience, these two expressions of the faith are the two least likely to co-exist with a mailed-in, non-attentive participation at Mass in which God is hardly recognized. This may be because neither, in our present age, are reached by the path of least resistance. You don’t get into either group by being a “going through the motions” type. You have to want to go the extra mile for God. (I don’t mean “have to” exactly; of course exceptions can exist.)

Where openness to the possibility exists, this union might be a fantastic marriage, beyond what either one is alone: like raspberry and chocolate! It might stretch what we think the Catholic spiritual life can be, like those 3-day event horses that excel at the refined control of dressage one day and total physical demands of a cross-country steeple-chase on the next.

The combination might turn out saints like nobody can imagine. You never know!


#12

I’m sorry. I read something into this without paying much attention. I will be more careful in the future.

Thanks :o


#13

Tradition, both in belief and practice is a neccessary part of Catholicism. However, it is not the only part of Catholicism.

My main problem with the Charismatic movement is that it is 1) Unsuitable for Mass and 2) It is used exclusively and is usually used as a replacement for Tradition (which is irreplacable.)

The Catholic charismatic movement has at its heart a sincere desire to worship the Lord, particularly through the gifts of the Holy Spirit. So, I can’t see why, at least in principle, the two spiritualities can’t go together.

God bless,

JD


#14

I love your quote from Mother Teresa. I’ve always received communion on the tongue out of respect to make sure there are no particles on my hands etc. I think the church made a big mistake allowing this. I know someone who bought a ceborium or whatever the plates called ( forgot ) to hold under the chin so the people would receive communion on the tongue. Perhaps there are people out there who don’t like this and can explain why to their priest and offer to buy the plate? God bless:)


#15

Sorry I don’t know the answer to the question…

but this thread made me think of a video I saw recently of a Latin Mass in Rome. It’s an FSSP Mass… btw, FSSP is not at all like SSPX etc, it’s fully obedient to the Holy Father and in communion with the Church :slight_smile: I’d love to go to this parish… isn’t it beautiful? I LOVE the reverence for the Eucharist. :slight_smile:

ca.youtube.com/watch?v=zMVZ65q5fT8

…is this compatible with the CCR? hmm… I don’t know… I think it’s a different type of expression. It’s very solemn. In the CCR they express their worship for God differently. So I’d say that it’s best to keep them apart…?


#16

Both have merits, but, the divisive attitudes of those who prefer the OF are contrary to charity.

I’ve never been to a Mass where someone speaks in tongues, or has been “slain in the Spirit”, so that just shows the childish assumptions made by some people.

The ridiculous notions purported by people over preferences breaks my heart. Small wonder the Church is being marginalized into oblivion, when we act so derisively towards each other.

Threads like this perpetuate this childish squabbling and invite fighting. :tsktsk:


#17

If you go to the traditional catholic forum here you may find sspx is no longer excommunicated. God bless:thumbsup: :slight_smile:


#18

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