Is there a biblical basis for not smoking/drinking underage?


#1

Well is there? Or it is just the wise thing to do?


#2

Honour thy father and thy mother does it for me. They should know best.


#3

[quote="Falco, post:2, topic:334451"]
Honour thy father and thy mother does it for me. They should know best.

[/quote]

That, and "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's." We are instructed to follow our governmental laws so long as they do not contradict God's law.


#4

[quote="followingtheway, post:1, topic:334451"]
Well is there? Or it is just the wise thing to do?

[/quote]

[quote="Falco, post:2, topic:334451"]
Honour thy father and thy mother does it for me. They should know best.

[/quote]

[quote="Ophelia23, post:3, topic:334451"]
That, and "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's." We are instructed to follow our governmental laws so long as they do not contradict God's law.

[/quote]

This is what we teach in the RCIA and the PRE programs in my parish.


#5

[quote="followingtheway, post:1, topic:334451"]
Well is there? Or it is just the wise thing to do?

[/quote]

Smoking and drinking ages are determined by the the Governments in each country and not by the Church.
The Church teaches against excessive smoking and drinking.


#6

[quote="Falco, post:2, topic:334451"]
Honour thy father and thy mother does it for me. They should know best.

[/quote]

[quote="Ophelia23, post:3, topic:334451"]
That, and "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's." We are instructed to follow our governmental laws so long as they do not contradict God's law.

[/quote]

[quote="thistle, post:5, topic:334451"]
Smoking and drinking ages are determined by the the Governments in each country and not by the Church.
The Church teaches against excessive smoking and drinking.

[/quote]

Yes, agreed, drinking is in itself not a sin; however, as you stated, being "Drunk" is so. I do not however, see how this statement negates what has been established in the prior posts that there is biblical support prohibiting underage smoking and drinking. In order for a person not to become "drunk" there is a minimum level of maturity that one must have to make that determination and usually those that are underage cannot make that determination. Therefore, underage drinking often leads to drunkenness.

As for the smoking side of the statement: I am only going to look at the chemical side of smoking. Nicotine is considered one of the most addictive substances routinely ingested. It is highly addictive in youth. These statements are established scientific fact.
drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/tobacco-addiction/nicotine-addictive
nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000953.htm
mayoclinic.com/health/nicotine-dependence/DS00307
Therefore, I contend, that due to the highly addictive nature of nicotine that any use by an underage individual is excessive, in as with drinking, they are unable to form the needed mature determinations of what is excess, and therefor in violation of Church teaching.

And the Church teaches to Honor thy father and thy mother. This is also interpreted to mean to honor those laws and regulations of the state that are not in conflict with Church teaching. ("Give to Caesar what is Caesar's.").

It is most certainly that one's father and mother (or those acting a legal custodian/guardians would also fulfill that role) would want one to obey those laws and regulations of the state that are not in conflict with Church teaching. Therefore, given this, it is biblically wrong, and therefore Church teaching, to engage in underage smoking and drinking.

If you go to the USCCB, to movie reviews (now found here Movie reviews by Catholic News Service one of the objections listed for many films that receive "A-II" or worse ratings is underage smoking and/or drinking.
One can therefore, IMHO, make the assertion that the US Bishops (or those appointed and approved by them) also have an issue with underage drinking and smoking. Therefore, if the ordinaries have disapprove, and thru our baptism we are obliged as Catholics to obey, then there is a Church "teaching" against underage drinking and smoking (at least within the US, I would suspect that there is a similar position with the other Bishops worldwide in regards to underage smoking and drinking). Unfortunately, I cannot at this time find a direct statement by the USCCB about this position.


#7

[quote="z_0101, post:6, topic:334451"]
Yes, agreed, drinking is in itself not a sin; however, as you stated, being "Drunk" is so. I do not however, see how this statement negates what has been established in the prior posts that there is biblical support prohibiting underage smoking and drinking. In order for a person not to become "drunk" there is a minimum level of maturity that one must have to make that determination and usually those that are underage cannot make that determination. Therefore, underage drinking often leads to drunkenness.

As for the smoking side of the statement: I am only going to look at the chemical side of smoking. Nicotine is considered one of the most addictive substances routinely ingested. It is highly addictive in youth. These statements are established scientific fact.
drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/tobacco-addiction/nicotine-addictive
nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000953.htm
mayoclinic.com/health/nicotine-dependence/DS00307
Therefore, I contend, that due to the highly addictive nature of nicotine that any use by an underage individual is excessive, in as with drinking, they are unable to form the needed mature determinations of what is excess, and therefor in violation of Church teaching.

And the Church teaches to Honor thy father and thy mother. This is also interpreted to mean to honor those laws and regulations of the state that are not in conflict with Church teaching. ("Give to Caesar what is Caesar's.").

It is most certainly that one's father and mother (or those acting a legal custodian/guardians would also fulfill that role) would want one to obey those laws and regulations of the state that are not in conflict with Church teaching. Therefore, given this, it is biblically wrong, and therefore Church teaching, to engage in underage smoking and drinking.

If you go to the USCCB, to movie reviews (now found here Movie reviews by Catholic News Service one of the objections listed for many films that receive "A-II" or worse ratings is underage smoking and/or drinking.
One can therefore, IMHO, make the assertion that the US Bishops (or those appointed and approved by them) also have an issue with underage drinking and smoking. Therefore, if the ordinaries have disapprove, and thru our baptism we are obliged as Catholics to obey, then there is a Church "teaching" against underage drinking and smoking (at least within the US, I would suspect that there is a similar position with the other Bishops worldwide in regards to underage smoking and drinking). Unfortunately, I cannot at this time find a direct statement by the USCCB about this position.

[/quote]

Good luck with that because the Church does not define what it means by "excess" smoking. Many members of these forums have asked that question and there is no answer. Anyone can argue 40 cigarettes a day is excessive just as some argue 1 cigarette is excessive.


#8

[quote="thistle, post:7, topic:334451"]
Good luck with that because the Church does not define what it means by "excess" smoking. Many members of these forums have asked that question and there is no answer. Anyone can argue 40 cigarettes a day is excessive just as some argue 1 cigarette is excessive.

[/quote]

I fear that you are correct with the excess and smoking - in the general sense.

This is why I took the position I did by using the the addictive compound within cigarettes and not the entire concept of smoking. My Father and Step-Mother smoke, and for them what is an excess, I wouldn't attempt to tell them! However, as my parents, they have told me, their child (well, even at close to 1/2 a century they still call me their child :-) ) that even one cigarette is an excess... even as an adult, I must honor their wisdom - even if I don't follow it. (BTW: I don't smoke... seen what it does and did to my Parents :( ).

However, my position is that anything that is addictive, be it smoking, drinking, drugs, etc... done by a minor, without parental and/or medical supervision and consent, is an excess in that the minor usually does not have the knowledge nor understanding to what is an excess for their body for the compound consumed and will thus, consume too much, an excess. Because smoking exposes the minor to an addictive compound, ofwhich they have no idea the amount needed to be in excess, and because it is addictive it removes their free-will to not consume an excess, even if they did know at what point, it is in any amount an excess for a minor.
Perhaps not the the most solid argument... however, I think it a difficult one to refute. (?)

I will however, stick to my guns with the "Honor they Father and Mother" position. It is a much more stable position to argue from about this - Mom and Dad say, NO! Mom and Dad say, "Follow the Law!" Neither is against the teachings of the Church, and there is the 10 commandments to back up the position. That's a hard cliff to knock down... unless they start building that Golden Calf again. - cringe -


#9

Operative word here is "underage".

This is a matter of law. State laws prohibit drinking and smoking under a certain age, and the New Testament tells us,
What Does the Bible Say About Obeying The Law?


#10

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