Is there a place for me?

Hi, I’m new here and I have to anyone out there who might be able to help. I don’t have a crisis of faith. I do, however, feel I have a crisis in dogma. Let me explain. I love GOD, Jesus and totally believe in the Holy trinity. I also revere our holiest of mothers, Mary and I believes she interceeds on my behalf to our Lord. It is beacuse of this importance in things like the Holy trinity, Our holy mother, saints, and sacraments that I LIKE the catholic religion and want to consider myself one. I have been baptized, received first comunion and did my confirmation too. I don’t wan’t to belong to any other church. I believe all religions have problems and so does catholicsm, (we are human, afterall) but of everything out there, I choose catholiscm as the way to express my love for God.
My problem is I am pro-choice, I can’t make myself agree with the idea of deciding for someone else. I am also pro death penalty, pro euthanasia. and pro stem cell research. Oh and that any responsible adult in a sexual relationship should use a condom. and here lies my problem. I have stopped going to church because i feel like i don’t belong. and I don’t think is fair because I love God. I haven’t stopped praying. but i don’t know what to do. part of me wants to go to church and not care what other people think and just be part of the celebration of our lord. and the other part feels like a hypocrite because my mere presence goes against what i believe. can anyone out there relate? what do i do? what if one day I am approached by a priest whao assumes that I agree with everything he is saying and then he finds out the truth? What should I do? How do other people cope with this. I don’t want to go “shopping” for a new religion but I don’t think there’s a place for me in catholicsm, either. :confused:

My recommendation is to read The Unaborted Socrates by Peter Kreeft. It makes an slam-dunk case against abortion without any reference to religious teaching. Of course, when one adds the religious teaching, it goes from a slam-dunk to a tommahawk slam-dunk that breaks the glass. :slight_smile: Remember that obedience is a sacrifice and one very pleasing to God. In fact, one author calls it the great fast. I will pray for you.

Scott

[quote=Sara99]Hi, I’m new here and I have to anyone out there who might be able to help. I don’t have a crisis of faith. I do, however, feel I have a crisis in dogma. Let me explain. I love GOD, Jesus and totally believe in the Holy trinity. I also revere our holiest of mothers, Mary and I believes she interceeds on my behalf to our Lord. It is beacuse of this importance in things like the Holy trinity, Our holy mother, saints, and sacraments that I LIKE the catholic religion and want to consider myself one. I have been baptized, received first comunion and did my confirmation too. I don’t wan’t to belong to any other church. I believe all religions have problems and so does catholicsm, (we are human, afterall) but of everything out there, I choose catholiscm as the way to express my love for God.
My problem is I am pro-choice, I can’t make myself agree with the idea of deciding for someone else. I am also pro death penalty, pro euthanasia. and pro stem cell research. Oh and that any responsible adult in a sexual relationship should use a condom. and here lies my problem. I have stopped going to church because i feel like i don’t belong. and I don’t think is fair because I love God. I haven’t stopped praying. but i don’t know what to do. part of me wants to go to church and not care what other people think and just be part of the celebration of our lord. and the other part feels like a hypocrite because my mere presence goes against what i believe. can anyone out there relate? what do i do? what if one day I am approached by a priest whao assumes that I agree with everything he is saying and then he finds out the truth? What should I do? How do other people cope with this. I don’t want to go “shopping” for a new religion but I don’t think there’s a place for me in catholicsm, either. :confused:
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Just a thought here. You say you love God, and yet believe in all of these life destroying actions as a matter of personal choice. I think maybe you need to understand that Christ said that to love Him was to love and do the will of the Father. Do you actually believe the will of the Father includes the taking of innocent human life for the sake of convenience or sanctioning someone’s right to do so? Or “responsible adults” entering into relationships that are clearly not the Father’s will in that they don’t fulfill that which they were created for?

Christ is looking for followers who above all things, long to understand his heart and be in complete love with him in Truth and in Spirit. It really is not a pick and chose deal.

Just something to think about while your on your journey. :wink:

God Bless,
Jeanette

If you believe in abortion rights, condoms for all adults having sex (won’t even ask if these adults need to be married in your opinion?), stem cell research etc. then you should not be Catholic. Those are all things that go against the teachings of our Faith.

The thing I love about the Catholic Church is it doesn’t bend or change it’s views according to the whims of society. The Church has ALWAYS taught the santitiy of human life - and despite what Planned Parenthood or some Feminist group would have us believe - there is NO WAY in the world to reconcile the God of the Bible - the Jesus who said, “Let the little children come to me.” with the killing of innocent babies. Call it “choice” if it makes you feel better - but it doesn’t change the fact that at the end of the day, a live human baby is sucked from it’s mother’s womb - pulled apart into little pieces - and tossed into the trash. How anyone could think that God would be pleased with that is beyond me. But that’s me… we’re talking about you.

There are many Protestant Churches that like you, disagreed with fundamental elemements of the Catholic Faith. I suggest you shop around until you find one that fits your personal beliefs. You can go to church on Sunday surrounded by like minded folks and not have to feel “guilty” about disagreeing with what the Catholic Church teaches. Sadly, you won’t find the Eucharist in any of those Churches - but I suppose that’s the price you’ll have to pay to hold dear your views that abortion, contraception, killing of the elderly (euthanasia), and stem cell research (might as well make use of all those baby parts) are all good things.

Wow! That there’s a hum-dinger!
Regarding the pro-choice issue, are you not deciding for someone else (the baby) that they should die? If the baby is unwanted, there’s always adoption. Unfortunately, the one who cannot speak and make his or her wishes known is the one who gets his or her decision made by others. You are not really avoiding making a decision for someone else, you’re simply allowing the one who can speak to destroy the one who can’t.
You can be a faithful Catholic and support the death penalty.
As for euthanasia, how can you be sure that, again, you are not “making” a decision for another? What’s to stop someone from “convincing” dear old Mom that everyone would be better off if she were dead?
As for stem cells, there are stem cells and there are embryonic stem cells. The church has no problem with stem cell research as long as the stem cells do not come from a prematurely terminated embryo. For the same reason as given above…the child’s option to live is taken away.
I don’t think you should stop going to church over this. You may feel uncomfortable because the church environment is making you question some of your secular beliefs. We can’t learn if we don’t question though. If you truly, deeply, honestly believe what you’ve said then you should have no fear of standing behind your belief. If, however, you have the slightest uncertainty…then you should examine the other point of view and see what you come up with.
Knowledge is a good thing. Only when you know and understand both sides can you come to a reasonable conclusion.
Now…get back to Church…yes, now! Oh stop whining and go…yes, those shoes look fine…get to steppin’! God Bless.

Don’t stop going to church. Stop receiving Communion – it’s perfectly OK to attend Mass without receiving Communion – and start doing some real homework on these issues.

Everyone (I mean EVERYONE) I have ever met who holds the views you hold on life issues has never really had the chance to examine them from the Catholic perspective.

For example, if I were to ask you WHY the Catholic Church holds the positions you disagree with, could you give me a clear answer? I’ll bet not! So go for it! Get busy and begin exploring these beautiful teachings. I guarantee, you are in for a wonderful ride!
I would advise starting with Christopher West’s excellent LITTLE book, Good News about Sex and Marriage.

God bless your search.

[quote=mercygate]Don’t stop going to church. Stop receiving Communion – it’s perfectly OK to attend Mass without receiving Communion – and start doing some real homework on these issues.

Everyone (I mean EVERYONE) I have ever met who holds the views you hold on life issues has never really had the chance to examine them from the Catholic perspective.

For example, if I were to ask you WHY the Catholic Church holds the positions you disagree with, could you give me a clear answer? I’ll bet not! So go for it! Get busy and begin exploring these beautiful teachings. I guarantee, you are in for a wonderful ride!
I would advise starting with Christopher West’s excellent LITTLE book, Good News about Sex and Marriage.

God bless your search.
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Wonderful pastoral advice, Mercygate! I hope she takes you up on it. :thumbsup:

Jeanette

[quote=carol marie]If you believe in abortion rights, condoms for all adults having sex (won’t even ask if these adults need to be married in your opinion?), stem cell research etc. then you should not be Catholic. Those are all things that go against the teachings of our Faith.

The thing I love about the Catholic Church is it doesn’t bend or change it’s views according to the whims of society. The Church has ALWAYS taught the santitiy of human life - and despite what Planned Parenthood or some Feminist group would have us believe - there is NO WAY in the world to reconcile the God of the Bible - the Jesus who said, “Let the little children come to me.” with the killing of innocent babies. Call it “choice” if it makes you feel better - but it doesn’t change the fact that at the end of the day, a live human baby is sucked from it’s mother’s womb - pulled apart into little pieces - and tossed into the trash. How anyone could think that God would be pleased with that is beyond me. But that’s me… we’re talking about you.

There are many Protestant Churches that like you, disagreed with fundamental elemements of the Catholic Faith. I suggest you shop around until you find one that fits your personal beliefs. You can go to church on Sunday surrounded by like minded folks and not have to feel “guilty” about disagreeing with what the Catholic Church teaches. Sadly, you won’t find the Eucharist in any of those Churches - but I suppose that’s the price you’ll have to pay to hold dear your views that abortion, contraception, killing of the elderly (euthanasia), and stem cell research (might as well make use of all those baby parts) are all good things.

[/quote]

This is a great post.

May I also suggest, Sara, this website: www.priestsforlife.org
it has some abortion information that you may want to consider.
It’s not about taking a decision away from someone. God has decided to create a life, even if we don’t understand why. It is NOT up to us to decide if that child lives or dies. It is up to God. Truly, His will is more important than someone’s “choice” to kill their baby. You cannot be Catholic and pro-choice. Abortion or the support of it is a mortal sin. As is euthanasia. Same concept applies.

Birth control, also is a mortal sin. Check out the home page of Catholic Answers for some info on that.

I really wish you the best on your journey. I hope you don’t take this too harshly - I just wish someone had told me the truth sooner, so I like to spread it around :thumbsup:

[quote=Sara99] My problem is I am pro-choice, I can’t make myself agree with the idea of deciding for someone else.
[/quote]

Sara, m’luv: just a thought on these sentences to help you to work your way towards understanding the Catholic (actually, the Christian) position on this. Being pro life is not “deciding for someone else.” The person who is pregnant has already made a choice: she has chosen to engage in a behavior that is geared primarily toward producing a human life.

The Church did not decide that for her. If the woman who does not want the life within her had followed the wise guidance of her loving mother, the Church, she would have chosen not to take the step that introduced that child into her womb. I am also pro death penalty, pro euthanasia. and pro stem cell research. Oh and that any responsible adult in a sexual relationship should use a condom. The Catholic Church is not absolutely opposed to the death penalty. If you read the portions of The Catechism of the Catholic Church which address this, you will see how and why the current stance of many in the Church today is against it. Euthanasia comes under the “value of life” department. The Church is pro stem cell research. The stem cell research the Church condemns is fetal stem cell research because it depends upon the “product” of aborted fetuses.

As for responsible adults in sexual relationships – what kind of relationship do you have in mind? Are you saying that extra-marital relationships can be “responsible” by any definition that respects the full dignity of the human person as created by God? Of course, Catholics, and most Christians would disagree on very good grounds . . . but all of that will come into focus for you as you explore these life issues in greater depth.

I think you will be come a strong apologist for the pro-life position once you fully understand it!

If you refuse to believe that abortion, or sex protection is a sin, then theres not that much advice i can give you.

[quote=melbourne_guy]If you refuse to believe that abortion, or sex protection is a sin, then theres not that much advice i can give you.
[/quote]

Refuse? Did Sara refuse? Seems to me she was actually seeking some kind of resolution.

Chances are the people sitting in the pew to your right and left on Sundary morning share Sara’s views. You would be well advised to brush up on your understanding of these matters so that the next person who poses such a question to you will receive helpful information rather than a condescending dismissal.

The best advice I can give to you, because I once believed the things you believe, is to really pray about and think through WHY you believe the things you believe…and God will give you the answers, but you need to start with your own heart :wink: !

Anna x

[quote=mercygate]The person who is pregnant has already made a choice: she has chosen to engage in a behavior that is geared primarily toward producing a human life.

[/quote]

So, if the pregnancy is the result of a rape, it’s OK to end it, because the woman did not choose to engage in that behavior.

[quote=a_cermak]So, if the pregnancy is the result of a rape, it’s OK to end it, because the woman did not choose to engage in that behavior.
[/quote]

The original poster did not pose this specific situation in her overall claim of being pro “choice”.

Are you suggesting that the justification of abortion in the event or rape is a no-brainer, and an unanswerable assault on the pro-life position?

I assure you, it is not. But that would be for another thread.

This thread has been mounted by a woman who is stuggling with how a specific teaching of the Church relates to her own faith and practice.

No I’m saying that if your reason for believing that pro-life laws should be made and imposed on others is that by having consensual sex, consent is given to become pregnant, then there is a hole in the logic because abortion is not permissible in the case of rape either.

[quote=a_cermak]No I’m saying that if your reason for believing that pro-life laws should be made and imposed on others is that by having consensual sex, consent is given to become pregnant, then there is a hole in the logic because abortion is not permissible in the case of rape either.
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Are you saying that killing a fetus is justified in cases of rape? The idea that taking the innocent life of the fetus may be justified requires defining a fetus as non-human. Again: another thread.

Perhaps you could state your understanding of the official Catholic position on this. Let’s see if your impressions match what the Church actually teaches.

[quote=mercygate]Are you saying that killing a fetus is justified in cases of rape? The idea that taking the innocent life of the fetus may be justified requires defining a fetus as non-human. Again: another thread.

Perhaps you could state your understanding of the official Catholic position on this. Let’s see if your impressions match what the Church actually teaches.
[/quote]

Actually, Mercy, I think you and Amy are on the same page. You’ll note she used a pretty big IF in her posting; she’s trying to make the point that abortion is not an acceptable position even in the case of rape (in which consent is not given).

As to the OP, why don’t you read the wonderful things the Church has put out on these issues? The suggestion of Chris West’s book (The Good News about Sex and Marriage) is an excellent one, as is JPII’s Theology of the Body. If you’d like to go back in time a little bit, Paul VI’s Humanae Vitae is also great reading. I think you might try and understand why the Church teaches what she does, Sara. As Americans, we grow up in a culture that values personal freedom, and that is a great blessing. But sometimes we sacrifice our morality on the altar of personal freedom, and then we’re not really free; we’re a slave to our sins. True freedom does not lie in the ability to do whatever the heck we want; true freedom is the freedom to be the man or woman that God wants me to be.

Good luck on your search, Sara. You’ll find that the teachings of the Church on these most intimate of matters will be like “the pearl of great price.”

CathChemNerd :slight_smile:

why can’t we love them both?

By Dr. & Mrs. J.C. Willke

By Dr. & Mrs. J.C. Willke
A Right-to-Life question and answer book

CHAPTER 26

**CHOICE?**

*Does she have a right to choose abortion?

Does this supersede the fetal Right to Live?*

THE POSITION IS:

The main question is: “Who decides, the woman or the government?” Clearly this is a woman’s rights issue. This is the basic and only question. Should she or should she not have the right to choose?

[list]
*]

*]Are you a sincere person who thinks abortion is wrong but still believes the woman should have the right to choose?
[/list]
[list]
*]

*]Are you disturbed by the high number of abortions (almost one for every two live births) and that it is used for birth control?
[/list]
[list]
*]

*]Are you comfortable with this position? Or, are you troubled by the conflict it presents?
[/list]Let’s look closer.

more…

[quote=CathChemNerd]Actually, Mercy, I think you and Amy are on the same page. You’ll note she used a pretty big IF in her posting; she’s trying to make the point that abortion is not an acceptable position even in the case of rape (in which consent is not given).

[/quote]

If that is the case, then I offer my sincere apology.

[quote=Sara99]…(we are human, afterall)…what if one day I am approached by a priest whao assumes that I agree with everything he is saying and then he finds out the truth? What should I do? How do other people cope with this. I don’t want to go “shopping” for a new religion but I don’t think there’s a place for me in catholicsm, either. :confused:
[/quote]

Approach a priest first on this in the Sacrament of Confession. Examine your life thouroughly prior to confession–read about the seven deadly sins and look for those in your life. Confess everything the Church teaches is a mortal sin, even if you don’t personally consider the action sinful. (like skipping Sunday Mass, birth control, pre-marital sex, etc, etc.) You can even confess the moral teachings you don’t believing.

Forgive me if I am jumping to conclusions, but I suspect that some unconfessed mortal sin may be behind this “crisis in dogma”. God is loving, but you should not presume you know better than His Church. And by the way, don’t assume all priests support the Church teachings on these matters either. We are all humans as you wrote, but we are fallen humans in need of God’s forgiveness and mercy so that we can rise above our fallen natures and become the images of God that He created us to be.

The place for you in the Church is the Confessional!!
(Maybe I’ll meet in you in the line as I also need it.)

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