Is there a protestant conspiracy on this site

#21

[quote=StCsDavid]Catholics regard protestantism as a wound to the unity of the one and only chruch that Christ gave to humanity. This is why we continously reach out to our Protestant brethren. I see a lot of Protestants who view Catholics as the enemy. What did we do to you? I ask that as a personal question. Not what did a few of our sinful members do in the years preceeding Luther and his successors? I really want to know what did* I* ever do to you to make you see me as the enemy?
[/quote]

Well, I am sorry that you have been treated this way. There are a lot protestants who don’t see catholics as the enemy, but you probably haven’t encountered them because they are more likely to leave you alone.

Generally, there are some protestants who feel like the RCC doesn’t teach the bible, and they want to help you leave an institution that is doing this.

God Bless,
Kendy

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#22

Oh how a thread like this just tugs at my heart… It makes me tear up just thinking about how the children of God bicker and fight about who is right and who is wrong even though they are not the ones to even come close to that decision. Or how they shove at each other or beat each other in the name of who Daddy loves the best. We should not have the ‘my religion can beat up your religion’ type of mindset but we do. WE make snide remarks and say sarcastic hurtful things like ‘you actually don’t love God as much as I do because I listen to Him and you don’t’. Why do we all, protestant and catholic, have the INSANE need to be right all the time and then bash it over the opposite side’s head? Why do we even have to consider ourselves at opposite sides anyway? How do any of us expect to make any head way with ANYONE by telling them they are stupid or that their very being and everything they know to be truth is WRONG? It doesn’t work when it is done to you, as is obvious with this thread, so why is it ok for you to go do it to someone else?

Think of the wonderful things we can do in the name of Christ if we just turn to eachother and LOVE like Christ commanded and leave the convincing of what path is right to Christ Himself.

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#23

[quote=Alfie]As a Protestant I feel that a lot of the posts on this forum are not authentic. There are too many posts by so called ex-Protestants.I feel that you have people that are delibertly making up the posts to try to convince Evangelicals that the majority of Protestants are finally seeing the light and coming back to the Roman church. When I watch EWTN there are countless numbers of these so-called ex-Protestants on various programs bemoaning how they wasted all their time in Evangelical churches. Catholic programs now use Protestant words like “born again” to mislead minimal Protestants to think that the Catholic definition of “being born again” is equal to the Protestant equivalent. I get the feeling that it is all one great big propaganda machine. The Catholic church fears Evangelicals more than any other force on earth. I do not believe that Evangelicals were ever asked to join Pope John Paul when he met with various religious leaders. A person who has truly been “born again” is never going to join the Catholic church. However the Bible does say that in the last days that even “the Elect” would be deceived and we Evangelicals are “the Elect” so it is possible I suppose that some could be deceived by “seducing spirits”.
[/quote]

Please show me one evangelical in the first 1500 years of Christianity. If you can’t then your whole arguement is false.

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#24

a question is not an attack
a request for clarification or more information is not an attack
a statement of one’s own position with an invitation for alternative views is not an attack
whether or not a poster is sincere in his post is of course his own affair, as are his reasons for posting
we can be forgiven if we react to the words or tone of a post, or react to the clean indication that the poster has not done his homework by first reading the clear statements on these issues on the CA homepage, but even insincerity does not connote an attack.

please be very careful about choice of words in these forums, words have weight and meaning.

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#25

Re: Is there a protestant conspiracy on this site

:rotfl:

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#26

You’re right puzzleannie, a lot of the Protestant posts that the OP is complaining about are not attacks per se, and sometimes are not intended as attacks. The propblem is that these non-attacks can do more damage than actual attacks. Common situation - A Catholic asks a question, not purely a matter of theology but often something that’s important for their life. A Protestant gives an answer, and truly believes what they’re saying, but their answer is not in line with Catholic teaching. This is not an attack and doesn’t look like one. But the result is very bad - the Catholic has been misled (unless they realise that they have been fed a non-Catholic answer - but how is anyone else on the forums supposed to know whether they swallowed the answer or not?) The only remedy is for Catholics who can see the lie to come in to that thread and post “don’t listen to that guy, this is the official Catholic teaching.”

However, the thing is that any Protestants posting answers to those questions are not so ‘innocent’ - I’m pretty sure they know, when they’re posting, that they’re giving an answer that the question asker didn’t want. Because this is a Catholic forum - no one would ask a question on CAF unless they wanted a Catholic answer (unless they really specify)… if someone wanted a Protestant answer they would go to a Protestant forum. The Protestants posting in those threads are unfairly evangelising when they haven’t been invited to, and they know it.

What I would like is if there was a part of the forums where only Catholics were allowed so that these Catholics who need an answer and don’t need to be conned (not that the Protestants think they are conning - they think they’re doing a favor - but we know otherwise) will be able to post there. That’s what they do on some Protestant forums - kick all the Catholics out of the Protestant-only sections. It’s not a denial of the right to free speech, it’s just protecting the souls of those innocent Catholics who rely on CAF to give them good answers.

Or, another good idea would be to have a symbol on each post made by a non-Catholic user, to warn readers. (But this would require moderation of users to make sure no-one is lying about their religion. So would the other idea in fact).

And it’s not just the Protestants. The cafeteria and progressive Catholics also post answers which are against Catholic teaching and believe that it’s okay. It may be okay with them but again it has negative effects on the person asking the question.

Oh, and Singinbeauty, we don’t believe that God loves Protestants less that Catholics. But we do believe that Catholic teaching is right and Protestant teaching isn’t 100% right. And we believe that this is an important issue. Tell me, if a Christian sect emerged that said stealing was okay (even though the 7th commandment is ‘Thou shalt not steal’), wouldn’t you want to make a distinction between yourself and that sect, and wouldn’t you tell others that what that sect is saying is wrong?

Ah, and we can love Protestants and still say they are wrong. Jesus loved plenty of people who He said were wrong.

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#27

[quote=Kendy]I disagree that evagelicals have a liberal concept of Christianity.
[/quote]

Haven’t you heard of Jim Wallis? Big liberal, and yes, Evangelical. He’s got a book out now, though I forget the name of it.

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#28

[quote=Singinbeauty]Oh how a thread like this just tugs at my heart… It makes me tear up just thinking about how the children of God bicker and fight about who is right and who is wrong even though they are not the ones to even come close to that decision. Or how they shove at each other or beat each other in the name of who Daddy loves the best. We should not have the ‘my religion can beat up your religion’ type of mindset but we do. WE make snide remarks and say sarcastic hurtful things like ‘you actually don’t love God as much as I do because I listen to Him and you don’t’. Why do we all, protestant and catholic, have the INSANE need to be right all the time and then bash it over the opposite side’s head? Why do we even have to consider ourselves at opposite sides anyway? How do any of us expect to make any head way with ANYONE by telling them they are stupid or that their very being and everything they know to be truth is WRONG? It doesn’t work when it is done to you, as is obvious with this thread, so why is it ok for you to go do it to someone else?

Think of the wonderful things we can do in the name of Christ if we just turn to eachother and LOVE like Christ commanded and leave the convincing of what path is right to Christ Himself.
[/quote]

This is an apologetics forum. This is where people go to discuss very real differences in theology, not hold hands and sing “Kumbaya”. You’re on the wrong forum if you don’t like this sort of thing. You’re acting like someone who goes into an Italian restaurant and is shocked, shocked to find Italian food on the menu.

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#29

If your soul wasn’t at risk…I would say your post is comical…but it isn’t…what a shame.

[quote=Alfie]As a Protestant I feel that a lot of the posts on this forum are not authentic. There are too many posts by so called ex-Protestants.I feel that you have people that are delibertly making up the posts to try to convince Evangelicals that the majority of Protestants are finally seeing the light and coming back to the Roman church. When I watch EWTN there are countless numbers of these so-called ex-Protestants on various programs bemoaning how they wasted all their time in Evangelical churches. Catholic programs now use Protestant words like “born again” to mislead minimal Protestants to think that the Catholic definition of “being born again” is equal to the Protestant equivalent. I get the feeling that it is all one great big propaganda machine. The Catholic church fears Evangelicals more than any other force on earth. I do not believe that Evangelicals were ever asked to join Pope John Paul when he met with various religious leaders. A person who has truly been “born again” is never going to join the Catholic church. However the Bible does say that in the last days that even “the Elect” would be deceived and we Evangelicals are “the Elect” so it is possible I suppose that some could be deceived by “seducing spirits”.
[/quote]

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#30

Tell me, if a Christian sect emerged that said stealing was okay (even though the 7th commandment is ‘Thou shalt not steal’), wouldn’t you want to make a distinction between yourself and that sect, and wouldn’t you tell others that what that sect is saying is wrong?

Are you kidding me with this question? :stuck_out_tongue: What do you think the protestants are doing, in the wrong way I might add, when we see (or think we see) idolatry being practiced in the catholic faith? That is where the distrust and misunderstandings come from. If each side would learn to listen there would be a lot less hurt and arguing and a LOT more disolving of the fighting so that we can focus on reaching the world for Christ… :slight_smile:

This is an apologetics forum. This is where people go to discuss very real differences in theology, not hold hands and sing “Kumbaya”. You’re on the wrong forum if you don’t like this sort of thing. You’re acting like someone who goes into an Italian restaurant and is shocked, shocked to find Italian food on the menu.

Oh really? I am in the Apologetics forum??? SHOCK (I do hope you read the sarcasm in that statement :wink: ) I know where I am and I know what apologetics are for. What I don’t agree with is the way it is done. You can disagree with someone on theology and worship without killing, maiming, beating, threatning, disrespecting, or namecalling. I have often participated in discussions of theology and way of life and gotten my point across without these things.

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#31

I’ve got news for you, Alfie.
Evangelicals are NOT "the elect."
If you think they are, you are in for a great big surprise.
Merry Christmas,
Jaypeeto3

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#32

Well, I admit that I am a Protestant. I’ve been coming to this site for a little while, but only because I have been sincerely interested in learning about the Catholic viewpoint. I’ve grown up Protestant, and I’ve always been taught that the fundamental thing for salvation is believing in Jesus Christ and living for him. I have always considered Catholics and Protestants to be both Christians so long as an individual believes the above stated truth. It’s only been in the last few years that I’ve began to see more of the differences between the Catholic and Protestant churches. That’s why I began coming to this site–to learn more about the Catholic views.

One thing I have noticed though, is that it seems there are a lot of opinions on this site about what Protestants believe that are completely wrong. I’ve heard some of yall say how Protestants have grown up being taught that Catholics are wrong etc. etc. I never heard this from any church–and we moved around quite a bit, so we were members of several different Protestant churches. And even if I had been taught this, yall obviously have your prejudices about us too. I guess it goes both ways. But yall know that.

I’m still learning more about the Catholic church and really, I think it’s all very interesting. This forum has really helped me out a lot. But to be honest, there are things that I do still disagree with concerning the Catholic Church. There are some things that Catholics believe and things that yall have said that I just can’t find any Biblical backing for and I want to get to the root of it as best I can. After all, I’m no expert theologian; there may be something I have overlooked and I want to make sure I’ve got all the facts straight. But I’ll save all that for another discussion. God bless.

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#33

What do you think the protestants are doing, in the wrong way I might add, when we see (or think we see) idolatry being practiced in the catholic faith?

Yeah, I do agree with this question. For example, Catholics are very often accused of worshiping Mary, which yall of course refute. So fine; yall don’t worship Mary. But if I were in this situation, I’d ask myself what it is that am I doing that people see this about me. Because people didn’t just make up the whole worshiping Mary thing. There was something they saw that fueled it, even if it was a misunderstanding. I’d rather be known for worshiping Jesus. And I’m sure Catholics would rather this be so as well. I’d be fed up with the accusations of worshiping Mary too. But you’ve gotta ask yourself why people think that and fix it.

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#34

[quote=puzzleannie]a question is not an attack
a request for clarification or more information is not an attack
a statement of one’s own position with an invitation for alternative views is not an attack
whether or not a poster is sincere in his post is of course his own affair, as are his reasons for posting
we can be forgiven if we react to the words or tone of a post, or react to the clean indication that the poster has not done his homework by first reading the clear statements on these issues on the CA homepage, but even insincerity does not connote an attack.

please be very careful about choice of words in these forums, words have weight and meaning.
[/quote]

As Mod for this forum, I will second this statement.

To answer the OP’s question from one who sort of “lives here”, the answer is no.

To answer the allegation that there are “fake converts” to Catholicism on this forum, the answer is not that I am aware of…and certainly not from CA staff of any kind. (You’re kidding I would hope. No one should be THAT paranoid.)

Are there non-Catholics who come here with the intention to evangelize Catholics away from their faith in clear contravention to the Forum Rules that they agreed to when they joined the forums? Sometimes…
Most notably the following rules:

"CONDUCT RULES

  1. Do not view the discussion area as a vehicle for single-mindedly promoting an agenda.
  2. Non-Catholics are welcome to participate but must be respectful of the faith of the Catholics participating on the board."

and…
"PRIVATE MESSAGING

  1. Inappropriate or harassing private messages are not permitted."

There have been incidents of all of this from time to time.

Debate is fine, so long as it is respectful and charitable.
Rhetorical denunciations are not, especially if they drip vitriol.

Let the conspiracy theories die quietly, and attempt to discuss your differences within the sincere love of Christ and let the Holy Spirit deal with the hearts.

http://bestsmileys.com/christmas3/19.gif

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#35

[quote=Alfie]As a Protestant I feel that a lot of the posts on this forum are not authentic. There are too many posts by so called ex-Protestants.I feel that you have people that are delibertly making up the posts to try to convince Evangelicals that the majority of Protestants are finally seeing the light and coming back to the Roman church.
[/quote]

Well, now you know how Catholics feel when we go to a Protestant site and read ex-Catholics bashing the Church (and no kidding, 100% of the time they are wrong because they never really understood their own Church’s teachings at the time they left it). OTOH, most Protestants that become Catholic DO know all about their former denominations because they were well-versed in its teachings and usually were in positions of leadership of one kind or another. I am one of these people. I hold a B. A. in Bible and Religious Education from an Assemblies of God Bible college (now university). I understood fully what I was leaving behind, what I was keeping and what I was getting into when I went through RCIA to be received into the Church. In fact, I knew more about Catholicism than the leaders of the RCIA program who were cradle Catholics.

When I watch EWTN there are countless numbers of these so-called ex-Protestants on various programs bemoaning how they wasted all their time in Evangelical churches. Catholic programs now use Protestant words like “born again” to mislead minimal Protestants to think that the Catholic definition of “being born again” is equal to the Protestant equivalent. I get the feeling that it is all one great big propaganda machine. The Catholic church fears Evangelicals more than any other force on earth.

I personally know a couple who were both pastors and missionaries for the Assemblies of God who are now Catholics who came into the Church through the ministry of the Journey Home program. I was their sponsor. There are many Protestant ministers, wives and families becoming Catholic, but I hardly think we have depleted the population. For every Protestant family who has become Catholic that you see on EWTN there are thousands who have not and never will. Besides, there are plenty of Protestant programs on the tube to balance out anything put on by EWTN.

And I hate to burst a bubble for you, but the Catholic Church fears no one. If it didn’t fear fascists and communists, I don’t think the Vatican is trembling in its boots over Evangelicals. LOL! Truly, if you were to ask a bishop or priest or deacon about Evangelical Christians most would say they are glad you folks love Jesus and are serving him as best you know how. I rather think you are being just a bit paranoid here, don’t you agree?

I do not believe that Evangelicals were ever asked to join Pope John Paul when he met with various religious leaders. A person who has truly been “born again” is never going to join the Catholic church. However the Bible does say that in the last days that even “the Elect” would be deceived and we Evangelicals are “the Elect” so it is possible I suppose that some could be deceived by “seducing spirits”.

I have no information regarding any pope meeting with any Evangelical leader except for Billy Graham. And the onus for that lies with your camp, I’m afraid. It is your leaders who refuse to meet with the Holy Father, not the other way around. They feel it would be a compromise of their beliefs to meet with the leader of all those idolaters–I’m not kidding. When Billy Graham had Catholic counselors at his revival meetings he was charged with watering down the Gospel in order to bring in more Catholics. Hardly an attitude conducive to congenial exchanges between Catholic leaders and Evangelicals.

And you have nothing to fear from Catholics. We are not “seducing spirits” nor do we target Evangelicals, like many Evangelicals target Catholics for proselyzation. I think you’d better look into your own camp’s behavior and do a bit of real research in order to understand exactly who has done what to whom in relations between Evangelicals and Catholics. :wink:

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#36

[quote=Sherlock]Haven’t you heard of Jim Wallis? Big liberal, and yes, Evangelical. He’s got a book out now, though I forget the name of it.
[/quote]

Have you heard of Andrew Sullivan. He’s catholic. He’s liberal!

More importantly, if you asked Jim Wallis if other evangelicals thought he was evangelical, he would say, “no.” In fact, he spends a good deal of time defending himself against other evangelicals and insists that he can rightfully call himself that baecuse other other evangelicals keep insisting that he is not.

I actually read Jim Wallis’s book and in that book, he had a lot more nice things to say about catholics than fellow evangelicals. The book is an attack on mainstream evangelicals

I am sure you can find plenty of things that you legitimitely disagree with evangelical on, but most evangelicals would have a heart attack if you call them liberal.

Kendy

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#37

[quote=Sherlock]This is an apologetics forum. This is where people go to discuss very real differences in theology, not hold hands and sing “Kumbaya”. You’re on the wrong forum if you don’t like this sort of thing. You’re acting like someone who goes into an Italian restaurant and is shocked, shocked to find Italian food on the menu.
[/quote]

Well, I see no reason why apologetics has to be hostile, which it sometimes is. Frankly, I wouldn’t mind a little hand holding.

I was just thinking of how fruitless all this attacking each other is. Someone raise a question, which may cause catholic protestant diagreement. THis often results in a combination of following. Protestants pointing out that catholics are unbiblical in their perspective or something of the sort. Often this is done in a very uncharitable and disrespectful manner. A catholic makes a snide comment about tradition. And then someone else chimes in with THE GATES OF HELL SHALL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST HER! This apparently must be written in all caps followed by an exclamation point. But more importantly, there is very little listening going on.

I have to say I think there’s more of this on the catholic side. However, besides what maybe my own bias; it is probably because it is your site and you didn’t come hear to listen to protestant views so it makes sense that you don’t want to listen.

I come to this site because I am genuinely interested in understanding in dialogue. If that is not what something you want, I will respectfully not participate.

I do think my fellow protestant should respectfully introduce themselves as protestants before they answer a question to a seeker who is interested in the church’s perspective. Better yet, I would be selective aboiut which posts I answer to. I would not respond to a question about the church’s teaching on indulgences because I disagree with. However, I would respond to something that invites us to discuss indulgences in general.

Kendy

P.S. The problem with this is that is makes a poor witness for Christ. If I were a nonbeliever, I would want nothing to do with our Jesus after reading some of these posts. That’s something we should all think about.

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#38

[quote=Kendy]P.S. The problem with this is that is makes a poor witness for Christ. If I were a nonbeliever, I would want nothing to do with our Jesus after reading some of these posts. That’s something we should all think about.
[/quote]

Kendy, you are not a non-believer and neither am I, so we can only speculate about what a non-believer would think. But if I was a non-believer, I would be much less turned away from the faith by what you see in here, than by seeing a religion where no-one is strict on the rules, where people disagree but no-one ever tries to explain why the teachings of the religion are what they are, where no-one is prepared to stand up and fight for what they believe. I know that being strict about your religion and being harsh about it are different, but it is in human nature to get frustrated when you’re dealing with lots of people who won’t agree with you. If I was a non-believer, I think I would understand, and I’d be glad that at least some people care about the truth.

Actually that’s an interesting point - we have had atheists on this site who say that we don’t care about the truth, and care more about being happy. Aren’t they seeing all these massive posts with Catholics defending the truth against Protestants and Protestants defending what they believe to be true against Catholics? Maybe these discussions / fights even go unnoticed by the non-believers.

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#39

[quote=Flopfoot]Kendy, you are not a non-believer and neither am I, so we can only speculate about what a non-believer would think. But if I was a non-believer, I would be much less turned away from the faith by what you see in here, than by seeing a religion where no-one is strict on the rules, where people disagree but no-one ever tries to explain why the teachings of the religion are what they are, where no-one is prepared to stand up and fight for what they believe. I know that being strict about your religion and being harsh about it are different, but it is in human nature to get frustrated when you’re dealing with lots of people who won’t agree with you. If I was a non-believer, I think I would understand, and I’d be glad that at least some people care about the truth.

Actually that’s an interesting point - we have had atheists on this site who say that we don’t care about the truth, and care more about being happy. Aren’t they seeing all these massive posts with Catholics defending the truth against Protestants and Protestants defending what they believe to be true against Catholics? Maybe these discussions / fights even go unnoticed by the non-believers.
[/quote]

I care about truth. I just think you should speak truth in love. When someone makes nasty comments about the shape of some evangelical person’s lips who was on T.V. They are not being loving.

Like Ghandi said, “You christians are so unlike you Christ.”

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#40

[quote=tdandh26]Why is it that every question which is asked on this site, seems to be attacked by anti- Catholics. It seems to me most of the questions seem to really want a genuine Catholic answer that will lead them to truth, but just when one seems close to doing just that someone tosses in a lie that cannot be contradicted without writing a short dissertation to explain why the lie is a lie. And to top that off just when one lie is dispelled 3 more or tossed into the mix.
[/quote]

Not that I would interpret, but then I am VERY new so I may not be the best judge. From some interesting posts, I have interpreted some comments as a metter of semantics and misinterpretaiton, but that may be the gamemanship of the individual poster. I have also seen where some answer a question with another question. I think that the Catholic Apologetics on this site handles themselves very well and I cannot tell you how much more I am learning from reading their answers. There truly are very spirit-fileld people on this site.

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