Is there any Eastern Catholic Clergy Posting Here?


#21

It is a poorly kept secret that when clergy reach 1,000 posts on CAF, GM ships them a new two-seat car.

We call this their “Vetting” :slight_smile:

(unfortunately, many find the insurance a burden).

:rofl:

hawk


#22

Dear Elias,

The new Roman Catechism is very well done. I applaud the church of Rome for having produced it. I use it extensively when teaching Roman Catholics for, example, Christendom College courses, etc. But there is no question of its origin, content, and style. It is, at least in part, an attempt to return to a prereformation style of catechesis. But in the end, it is a Roman catechism. I don’t think this is a topic that is debated by any serious theologians or historians. Each church, sui juris, has produced catechetical materials particular to their situation. It would be nice to have a “universal” catechism, but I don’t think we are there yet. Maybe someday soon. Hope that helps.

In Christ,

Fr. Sebastian

steliasmelkite.org


#24

Dear Elias,

Since you know who I am, may I ask your identity so we all are clear on who is speaking here? I am guessing from your wording and legalistic line of interrogation that you are either a Latin or a Maronite, but I wouldn’t want to assume anything. Thank you.

In Christ,

Fr. Sebastian


#25

@FatherSebastian would know better, but I think CAF does do a vetting of sorts. I know that in the past when a new member said they were a priest, but had problematic posts, CAF took action. And given the sad nature of CAF toward our priests, I would guess the real ones have been (wrongly) flagged enough that they’ve been vetted.


#26

I don’t know, but then you might ask, “How do we know anyone on here is who they say they are?” Is could get strange. Anyway, I think everyone here knows who I am. I always try to sign off with my parish website in case someone new doesn’t know me.

In Christ,
Fr. Sebastian Carnazzo
steliasmelkite.org


#27

Pope St. John Paul II expressed his intent in pages 1-6 of the Catechism under the heading Apostolic Constitution: Fidei Despositum:

"We offer the entire Church this reference text . . . [for] the Latin Church and the Oriental Churches . . . This Catechism [which] I today order by virtue of my Apostolic Authority, is a statement of the Church’s faith and of catholic doctrine attested to or illumined by Sacred Scripture, the Apostolic Tradition, and the Church’s Magisterium. I declare it to be a sure norm for teaching the faith and thus a valid and legitimate instrument for ecclesial communion.

[Its] approval and publication represent a service which the Successor of Peter wishes to offer to . . . all particular Churches in peace and communion with the Apostolic See.

Therefore, I ask all the Church’s Pastors and the Christian faithful to receive this catechism in a spirit of communion and to use it assiduously."

According to the Eastern Hierarchs, the text is a definitive magisterial act pertaining to articles of faith to which all the baptized owe religious religious obedience of intellect and will in order to maintain harmony with the bishops. (See, Canon 599).


#28

Im not Eastern Catholic (not even fully Catholic for that matter) and I wish Fr. Sebastian would post more. I always learn something new and interesting when he does!


#29

There is some semblance of vetting here. If you see a priest who is acting in a way that makes you doubt that he is who he says he is just send a private message to the moderators. They will tactfully make the necessary inquiries.


#30

And Pope St. John Paul II also added this reminder to his Catechism:

835 "Let us be very careful not to conceive of the universal Church as the simple sum, or . . . the more or less anomalous federation of essentially different particular churches. In the mind of the Lord the Church is universal by vocation and mission, but when she pu[t] down her roots in a variety of cultural, social, and human terrains, she takes on different external expressions and appearances in each part of the world."318 The rich variety of ecclesiastical disciplines, liturgical rites, and theological and spiritual heritages proper to the local churches “unified in a common effort, shows all the more resplendently the catholicity of the undivided Church.” 319


#31

Ok, so I take it you are a Roman Catholic. It would have been nice to admit this. Now, I would have to ask, have you ever read the entire Catechism? As I said before, I use it all the time when teaching Roman Catholics, so I am very familiar with it and it is a great work, not perfect, but very good. So what do I mean by it being a Latin Catechism in origin. All one has to do is read through, for example, the section on Baptism, Confirmation, and Eucharist. All of it is given through the world view and liturgical experience of a Latin and then side comments are given about those odd Easterners. It is clearly written by Roman Catholics with an attempt, and a very good one, at having a “universal” appeal. Let me give you one simple example. The section titled “Confirmation” is titled “Confirmation” for Latins. You wouldn’t have noticed this but we in the East do. The sacrament is called “Chrismation.” So why isn’t the section titled “Chrismation”? Or read through the section. The sacrament is referred to in every paragraph as “Confirmation.” Then the catechism throws a bone to the East by saying it is called “Chrismation” in the East. Then it goes right back to the word “Confirmation.” The whole thing is through Roman eyes. As I said, they did a good job, very well done. But it’s Latin through and through.


#32

Father,

I take it, then, that your additional Catechism documents would take into account “The rich variety of ecclesiastical disciplines, liturgical rites, and theological and spiritual heritages proper to the local churches “unified in a common effort…” as mentioned in 835 of Pope St. JPII’s Catechism?

And, this being the case, it seems to me to be entirely appropriate and licit for Eastern Rite churches to have their own documents. Do I have that right?


#33

No bad faith here Father; simply seeking understanding of “communion with Rome” in the Melkite Church.


#34

On a Reddit forum I frequent there is a vetting process. I had to send a “selfie” with a note containing my Reddit username and proof of my ordination. This was my drivers license and a link to my diocesan clergy listing.

I didn’t think it was intrusive and certainly was not offended. If CAF were to implement this I would be in favor.

Fr. Deacon John


#36

Yes, you do. The Catechism underscores the role of the various particular and local catechisms in the very section I quoted - a section entitled The Doctrinal Value of the Text. In fact, apparently, that is the reason for that section: to establish a universal doctrinal norm as a reference for all the particular catechisms.


#38

@CorAdCorLoquitur

I wonder if you are aware that the Eastern Catholic Churches are permitted to publish their own Catechisms.

I can’t answer for any other than than the UGCC who spent a long time producing theirs in Ukrainian and then later a translation into English.

It can be bought from Amazon as well as the various UGCC Eparchies Christ Our Pascha


#39

See the response above to MrsDizzy


#40

The text omits a detailed discussion on Chrismation in order to provide the Eastern Churches more latitude in teaching it. (Hence, the role of particular catechisms becomes clear, as underscored in the Catechism itself.) It was an act of deference, so the complaint is misguided.

But the omission of that discussion is no reason to exempt the faithful from what the text does declare. And by a definitive act of the Roman Pontiff - the perpetual and visible principle and foundation of the Church’s unity - the text applies universally.

Why, as a Melkite professing “communion with Rome,” may one declare the Catechism “their[s],” i.e., the Latins,’ and by clear implication, “not ours,” contrary to a definitive act of the Roman Pontiff?


#41

Dear Elias,

Ok, so you concede my point. The Catechism is a Roman Catechism which provides area for the easterners to insert their own emphasis. My point exactly. But let’s get to the point. The question behind your interrogation and the issue that is really bugging you is that you, for whatever reason, believe that Eastern Catholics are trying to squirm out of the iron fist of Rome to dance to their own tune. I don’t know why you have this perception, but there is some underlying issue you have with Eastern Catholics not being what you perceive as “loyal” or “submissive” to the degree that you are comfortable with and that’s what’s really going on here. You keep bringing it up in such lines as “no reason to exempt the faithful from what the text does declare.” so be honest with me and those reading this thread. Who is denying something? What’s his or her name? What’s really going on in your life that you are struggling with? Otherwise, we are being very inefficient here. I have a church to pastor, seven kids to raise, a wife in need of a husband, and countless jobs in need of attention. Please, let us know how we in the East can help you.

In Christ,

Fr. Sebastian Carnazzo, PhD

steliasmelkite.org


#42

Now we are talking.


#43

May God bless you! I suggest taking your legalistic antagonism born out of 500 years of apologetics towards Protestants elsewhere. Eastern Catholics are not Protestants with the Sacraments, as so many Roman Catholics assume in an ahistorical read of the timeline. You may want to look into a forum where the finer points are dbated between the Society of Pius the X, the Society of Pius the V, and the Society of Pius the I. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1406639/posts


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