Is there any truth to the Muslim claim that the bible was corrupted?

One popular argument used by Muslim to elevate the Quran to a divine status over the bible is to say bible was corrupted and a product of hundreds of years. While the Quran was always pure,unchanged and always perfect.

The Muslim “proof” for the corruption of the Jewish & Christian scriptures is just the assertion of such within the Qu’ran–which results in a Qu’ranic contradiction.

The Qu’ran went through a MAJOR bottleneck of compilation and editing (like reducing the total verses from 9000 down to 6000) during the Uthman Caliphate, some 50 years after the death of Muhammed. All other versions were declared invl;aid and destroyed by the Caliphs order (there are some rumors the Kuwaiti Royal famil posses one of the few varients)

NO such bottleneck occured for either the OT or the NT–there were just two many textual copies spread across and outside the Roman Empire for that to happen

Well, nobody can argue that the Old Testament was a work that was centuries in the making. That doesn’t mean it is inevitably corrupt.

Nor does “purity” imply “correctness.” The LDS make the exact same claim about the Book of Mormon (and they claim Joseph Smith was a prophet who was guided by an angel).

Muslims believe that God protects the Quran from corruption. I see no reason why he could not have protected the work of his earlier prophets. They obviously believe that the OT was, at one time, correct (it can’t have been “corrupted” if it was never true to begin with). Why would God protect one but not the other?

Short answer- no. Long answer- There is no truth to the claim.

Muhammad got his knowledge of the Scriptures from heretical sects on his trade routes. But his main objection was that he resented the fact that Isacc was chosen by Abraham and Ishmael was rejected. Who knows what he was talking about, the Qu’ran was not written down until hundreds of years after Muhammad’s death.

But we have the correct canon of Scriptures and it is the inspired word of God.

Pax
Linus2nd

They would argue based on textual variants that we cannot trust the biblical text. What Muslims often neglect to learn or mention is that there exists Textual variants in their own Arabic qurans. The existence of textual variants does not invalidate the contents of either book, mainly because we can examine the earlier manuscripts and the entire textual tradition to see where the manuscripts agree. It does pose more a challenge to the Muslim who maintains that it was preserved perfectly. No text reproduced by scribes for centuries has been preserved perfectly.

They can’t prove it. One need to show the “before” and “after” corrupted versions. Actually they don’t understand their holy book very well. What they think what their prophet meant is different from what was actually written.

If they want to look for imperfections in their holy book, those imperfections are easily found. But they are not allowed to highlight those imperfections. Ask Salman Rusdie author of the Satanic Verses.

  1. There are several Bibles, not just one.
  2. The Christian Bible was written/compiled over a 1600 year period.
  3. During that time it had been translated, mistranslated, and copied (correctly and otherwise) numerous times.
  4. Translation continues to be a source of contention and a method of obfuscation.
  5. Numbers 3 and 4 more or less apply equally to the Quran. It was compiled after the death of Muhammad and relied heavily on oral transmission to be codified.
  6. Divine status is a matter of faith, and likely cannot be proven or disproven with historical data.

Interestingly the Quran has no verse that says the Bible (scripture inside a book) is corrupted in the first place, so I don’t know why Muslims try to claim this,:shrug:

Unless someone can point to me where it is in the Quran.:hmmm:

MJ

No matter how hard one can prove that the Bible has been changed, there is no detriment to the fact that Jesus is Lord God through whom the World was made. Persecution comes in many forms, and claiming corruption is one of them.

MJ

The Muslim “proof” for the corruption of the Jewish & Christian scriptures is just the assertion of such within the Qu’ran–which results in a Qu’ranic contradiction.

The Qur’an doesn’t assert it.

It essentially says the religious leaders misinterpreted the text, and that is how that verse was understood for hundreds of years.

The notion that the Bible was corrupted is a recent exegesis, and a bad one, IMO.

:slight_smile:

I’ll take your word on it. :smiley:

It essentially says the religious leaders misinterpreted the text, and that is how that verse was understood for hundreds of years.

And without follow up proof. A massive FAIL for respecting a Faith that has been championing God (One God) long before Islam.

The notion that the Bible was corrupted is a recent exegesis, and a bad one, IMO.

Actually giving a bad name to exegesis. :wink:

MJ

There are a few versus from the Qur’an they cite as evidence that the Bible was corrupted.

This is probably one of the verses cited most often:

“And because of their breaking their covenant, We have cursed them and made hard their hearts. They change words from their context and forget a part of that whereof they were admonished.” 5:13

Which is, of course, not at all saying that the Bible was corrupted!

Jesus himself spoke of the convenant. Once, during the Last Supper. I would love to see the proof how Muslims tackle that. :wink:

MJ

From Fr Zakaria Boutros website:

1- Cow chapter( Surat Al-Baqarah) 75:" Do you covet that they will believe in you ,while a party of them used to hear the word of Allah , then falsify it after they understood it, and they know that "
2- Women chapter (Surat An-Nisa’) 46:" Among those who are Jews, there are some who displace words from their right places"
3- The Table chapter (Surat Al-Ma’idah’) 13." They change the words from their right places and have abandoned a good part of the Message that was sent to them.
4- The Table chapter (Surat Al-Ma’idah’) 41:"… And of the Jews are men who listen eagerly to lies…They displace some words from their right places"

All these point to some guys falsifying the contents of the Bible, rather than the Bible is corrupted. Their prophet knows that. But there are those who thinks it refers to a corrupted Bible which fortunately even Muslim scholars know isn’t true.

Even in the Muslims own book, in surat al Ankabut, it says that they tell the Christians and the Jews “We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you.” It says that right in the 46 verse, that they say they believe in the New Testament of the Christians and the Old Testament of the Jews. If any Muslim tells you that the Bible is corrupted, ask them why the Muslims in their own book say the believe in it!

And in the tafsir (explanation) for this verse in al Bukhari, it says that a group of Quraish (Mohammad’s tribe) found a Christian man who was the most trustworthy of the reciters from among the Christians to recite the Bible, and they still found some of what he said could be untrue through no fault of his own. So the verse is really saying “We believe in what you believe”, but then the tafsir says that they do not, because in that tafsir “he was narrating from manuscripts which he thought were good, but they contained fabricated material, because they did not have people who were so conscientious in memorizing the Scriptures by heart as the people of this great Ummah.”

This is the danger in talking to Muslims about their book and what it says about the Bible, because they will point to these verses like in al Ankabut to make you think like they confirm what your religion says, but they don’t actually, and when you read their explanation it makes no sense: He was the most trustworthy of the Christians to recite the book, but he didn’t learn it well enough to know it? Then how was he trustworthy? And of course we have older copies of all of the things that they say are fake than any of the copies of their own book. So I think the Muslims might put their doubt on our Holy Bible because they know it is older and more preserved than their own book, which was written not even always on paper but on scraps of animal bone, and other things that were scattered. Usman collected the Qurans in his time and made one edition and this is what the Muslims mostly know today, but they don’t think this is “corruption” of their book like they think it is of our book, except we did not destroy anything! This is why you can still find the variations in the canon between the churches, or the very old books and variations in them. Muslims used to have this in their Quran and you can still see it if you know about some controversies of the text (like the Quran in Yemen that they found that is different, or the verses that used to be in it but are not now according to the ancient Christians who debated with the Muslims in those days in Damacus, like Yuhanna al Dmashqi). But they burned all their old texts and say that we “corrupted” ours instead.

Nonsense. Never listen to this nonsense. Nobody told Mohammad that the monks and priests memorise from the old copies from before Islam all the Psalms and Gospels and everything? It is common in places in the east because no one knew how to read and still some don’t, so they would learn by memory. In the Coptic church especially there is the tradition where the chanter is blind, because it helps him to learn the melodies better. This is very old tradition, and helps with memory. It is not our fault that Mohammad doesn’t know these things. Didn’t his own arabs also memorise because most people could not read or write? The Christian man in the tafsir story is probably also an arab. I don’t know…maybe they want to claim that their brains work better beceause they are Muslims. Hahaha.

Hi, All ~

Maybe they read the claims put forth by others and so, because they can’t trust all of the Bible, they choose to trust none of it.

google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=Bible%2C+%22insertions%22+in+the+new+testament

I had the same problem for many years, except my disbelief centered around the very human displays of anger (temple) and condescension to the Apostles and Pharisees - it was so ‘un-Jesus-like’, to me, as Perfection in Love.

However, some wise folks in AA taught me to chew on things I could understand and apply, and trust the rest would come. To let go of the rejecting attitude, using the mind trick of setting aside misgivings, and patiently wait for answers.

Came across a quote a long time later and, while I have no idea what the author actually meant by it, I found it summed up my experience quite well. Today, I readily accept bread and, from time to time, am given a morsel of meat to chew on. :wink:

A cat who turns her nose up at bread does not deserve meat. - Mehmet Murat Ildan.

For me, it is also reflected in the parable of the talents. I was given ‘one talent’ for learning the Gospel. If I use it to seek a relationship with the Holy Spirit/Jesus, more will be added. With the help of many people, that has been my experience.

The early days were not easy. Many times I’d be reading and scream in my mind, “What sense does any of this make?!” Each time, however, I didn’t quit; didn’t give up. Perseverance was/is rewarded…sometimes with more questions than answers, but it’s all great, today. :slight_smile:

Best to All,

PJ

Interesting stuff there Efnouti.

I bolded a point I also would like to comment on.

Ive asked sometime back on this forum to a Muslim to show where Mohammad actually understood the origins of orthodox Christianity because this member started talking about Councils (Nicea etc). I mean how does the Muslim know about these Councils, when the Quran never even talks about them. I did not a get reply except Bible verses to “prove” Jesus is not God. :hmmm:

Just odd. :stuck_out_tongue:

MJ

no there is no proof God made any mistake in giving us his word.

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