My thread title is a bit misleading… No I would not rather be dead
But I do have a question. I work in construction. It can be dangerous. There are dozens of ways that you can get yourself killed everyday if you are not careful. Not to mention, some people are careful but accident happen that are out of their control and they can be killed.
My mother is my beneficiary. She is also the most competent person that I talk to regularl in my family. Lets say something happens to me and I am in a coma. Lets say I could live, but I am going to be a vegetable for the rest of my life if I did live. I do not know what it is like for the person in that state but I know they will have to be dependent on someone else for the rest of their lives. I think in that situation I would rather my mother just tell them to pull the plug on me. I do not want to be a burden to them and I would rather go with Our Lord (if he will welcome me to him) Would it be wrong to tell my mother to just let them pull the plug on me if that was the case? Or am I obligated to tell her to let my live even if I will be almost brain dead? I read The Catechism a couple years ago and I think it said if the quality of life will be so bad, it would be more humane to let the person die. BUT DO NOT QUOTE ME ON THAT! I could be wrong. It might have said something to that effect but not exactly??? Can anyone help me out?
My thread title is a bit misleading… No I would not rather be dead
But I do have a question. I work in construction. It can be dangerous. There are dozens of ways that you can get yourself killed everyday if you are not careful. Not to mention, some people are careful but accidents happen that are out of their control and they can be killed.
My mother is my beneficiary. She is also the most competent person that I talk to regularly in my family. Lets say something happens to me and I am in a coma. Lets say I could live, but I am going to be a vegetable for the rest of my life if I did live. I do not know what it is like for the person in that state but I know they will have to be dependent on someone else for the rest of their lives. I think in that situation I would rather my mother just tell them to pull the plug on me. I do not want to be a burden to them and I would rather go with Our Lord (if he will welcome me to him) Would it be wrong to tell my mother to just let them pull the plug on me if that was the case? Or am I obligated to tell her to let my live even if I will be almost brain dead? I read The Catechism a couple years ago and I think it said if the quality of life will be so bad, it would be more humane to let the person die. BUT DO NOT QUOTE ME ON THAT! I could be wrong. It might have said something to that effect but not exactly??? Can anyone help me out?
As I understand it, if “extraordinary measures” (such as a ventilator taking over for your lungs) are the only thing keeping you from being a corpse, those can be discontinued.
If you are in a vegetative state but will continue living on your own as long as you are provided with the same necessities as anyone else (e.g., food and water), then withdrawing those to hasten your death is wrong.
Discontinuing a ventilator for a man or woman in the state which you described is not sinful. Rather, it is putting a level of trust that God will allow to happen what He wills. It is not necessarily a death sentence, as you could continue breathing on your own.
Having a doctor or family member administer a drug that causes your death, on the other hand, is absolutely unacceptable and morally reprehensible. It takes the control away from God and places it solely into our own hands. I know that isn’t what you were asking about, though.
But its ok for the person in the coma, all the while, having so many people praying for them, and God does nothing, the person remains in the coma, or gets worse over a long period of time? Where is God in this? What good are all those prayers?
How are people expected to keep their faith when years go by, and they could have gotten the same results praying to a brick wall, or not praying at all?
Here is the Catechism:*2278. Discontinuing medical procedures that are burdensome, dangerous, extraordinary, or disproportionate to the expected outcome can be legitimate; it is the refusal of “over-zealous” treatment. Here one does not will to cause death; one’s inability to impede it is merely accepted. The decisions should be made by the patient if he is competent and able or, if not, by those legally entitled to act for the patient, whose reasonable will and legitimate interests must always be respected.*And this article from EWTN on end of life.
It’s a difficult thing, and there are no easy answers. I have experienced a great many answered prayers (or, at least, things going my way in situations that I prayed about; no overt miracles yet), but in recent years I have also had a young friend die of cancer and my mother-in-law suffer permanent incapacity from a stroke, despite ardent prayers during their respective ordeals.
We live in a world where people sometimes do horrible things to each other, and others suffer merely from the broken state of the world. Clear divine intervention to forestall or remedy such things is rare. If that makes it difficult for you to believe in God or His activity, I can offer no compelling counter-argument. I will say only that everyone who has ever believed or trusted in God has lived in the same world where horrible things sometimes happen. This includes our spiritual heroes, even the ones who did witness or perform spectacular miracles from time to time. The Old Testament is structured in part around the sufferings and conquests and enskavements and exiles experienced by the Israelities, and how they reconciled those realities with the belief that their God was in charge of everything snd had selected them for a special destiny. Even Jesus Himself, God walking the Earth, didn’t heal every sick or disabled person in the places He visited. And at the end of His life, His own prayer to be spared a terrible fate went ungranted. In the early centuries of Christianity (and continuing down to the present day), the greatest heroes were those who suffered and died for the faith. Outside of the nutty Prosperity Gospel heretics, no believer has ever expected that God will intervene to stop all earthly misery, or that prayer is only of value if answered dramatically and positively.
I think some people tend to think that dying a horrible death or watching a relative or close friend die a horrible death is the worst thing that can happen to us. Either from the point of view of the person dying or the person watching. The are worst things that can happen. Namely, being cut off from God after death and being sent to hell. I know it seems like a really big deal to suffer in this life, but in the grand scheme of things it is really not. If we truly believe Jesus is Our God and he came down from heaven and became man and suffered a terrible death, why should we expect not to suffer in this life too? Was God not there where Jesus was suffering? Of course he was. There was a bigger picture though. God had a plan. How do we not know that it is the same when we are suffering and God allows it? God is not a genie that grants our every wish. Can the created one judge his creator? You ask “How is one expected to keep their faith for years when they could have gotten the same results by not praying at all”? I guess I would say that it would be hard not to lose faith if we feel God is not listening to us for years but your question can cover a lot of different things. What is this person praying for? Is this person praying for something out of selfish motives? Is this person praying for something that they want God to give them when they could get it themselves with a little hard work? Is this person praying that God will change someone else’s mind about something even though we should know that God does not violate anyone’s free will? Even if that person chooses to reject God by their own free will?
Prayers are never a waste. Even if what we pray for is not answered, we are talking with our Lord. How is that a waste? We should not only talk to God when we want something anyways. He alone knows why he allows us to suffer sometimes. But I am willing to have faith that it is not for no reason and that he who endures and keeps faith through suffering will not one day get his reward.
So, there no real way to absolutely KNOW something was indeed an act of God, due to your praying, it could have just been things going your way, it happens, seems like the things that people do expect God of doing, are done in such a manner, that is almost seems he prefers it to be covert or questionable…it could be God, or it could be something else? We have no way of knowing…I dont think that right, If we are true to our faith over the years and try to stick to how we are supposed to live, I think God does need to show himself a little more, and not have his actions seem so covert.
Example, I have a friend that had to have both legs amputated (just below the knees), he is 68 yrs old and having a tough time with it, hes not religious, never has been, but I have prayed for him over the years, he has struggled with health problems for about 6 yrs now…what would be the harm if God were to miraculously restore both of his legs one day? if that happened, I would know FOR A FACT, it was God, nothing else would be possible, I would thank him and go on with life…point is, things like this DO NOT happen, at least Ive never heard of them, but there would be no harm in God doing something like this…it would show people he IS listening, he IS still around, he IS answering prayers in dramatic fashion.
I think that was the point of the installment of miracles in the first century, and periodically, we do see inexplicable miracles from time to time. There was even a thread on it a while back. So it does happen, although, like you, here in the human condition, I would certainly in a sense prefer that He “show Himself a little more,” as you said. But there seems to be some value in the endurance of suffering here in this fallen world. Otherwise, he would not have innocently willed to have himself scourged and killed at the hands of his own creatures.
The only glimpse I can offer into value of suffering is tied to the following couple of examples: One, a father may allow his child to put his hand near fire for a second so the child can learn the danger of the fire. The brief pain would have value as a teaching moment. Now, this is not necessarily the same kind of suffering as someone losing two legs. But the point is that it is an example that there can be a benefit to suffering, even in this world. Second, is the matter of love. Think of a marriage when couples vow to love even during bad times. If a spouse only loved the other during good times, what kind of weak love is that. Suffering is an arena that affords a greater love the chance to arise. Christ himself said in the Sermon on the Mount what good is it if we only love those who love us? And he said there is no greater love than to lay down one’s life. So you see how the fallenness of the world, the world of suffering, is paradoxically converted as the canvas on which a greater love can arise.
Now, none of this removes the mystery of suffering and what sort of quantifiable value it may contain. But it is an analogical glimpse, if you will, that it is plausible that suffering does have some value, certified by Christ who bore his cross willingly. And remember, he prayed to be spared the cup of blood he foresaw (e.g. Matt. 26:39). It would seem God didn’t “answer” that prayer as he preferred. So we also have the example from the master himself.
I hope that is helpful, even though it is not some panacea to eliminate the suffering experience.