Is there anyway to prove the Eucharist is the real body/blood of Christ without divine revelation?

For example,

How could we prove the real presence to someone who doesn’t believe in the Catholic teachings?

Please something other than private revelations as well in the answers because those aren’t deposits of the faith anyway.

You answered your own question. It’s an act of faith, a belief, it requires no proof. Which you probably already know.

:slight_smile:
People have only been trying to prove that for thousands of years.

So far, not possible.

The eucharist “miracles” where people many centuries ago have claimed a wafter turned into a bit of flesh…that doesn’t do it.

But if a wafer and wine actually transformed into Jesus one Sunday mass and a whole congregation saw it and whipped out their i-phones and he talked and answered all our questions about himself that everyone argues about and they filmed it and everyone posted it on youtube…I think you’d have a lot of converts on your hands.

.

Since the substance changes and the accidents remain,
and the accidents are those things which are perceptible to the senses or to any scientific instrument, then by definition we can only sensorily perceive the accidents, which is already apparent to our senses.

No, there is no way to “prove” it.

Some have been convinced by Eucharistic miracles, but note than in those cases, the accidents DO change, by an act of God.

Oh my! You don’t know how happy these “you can’t prove it” replies have made me! I know several people - a couple quite close - who insist one can prove the existence of God, the Real Presence, the truth in the Bible & Doctrine, so on. And I keep saying, no, you can’t prove it.

Now I know I’m not alone. Thank you very, very much! :flowers:

I, for one, do not want it proven to myself or others. If the Lord willed that I witness something, that would be amazing. But that would also come with much responsibility and challenge!

I strongly believe that he fashioned the Sacrament to rely heavily on faith and the Spiritual work He is doing within us. So “proof” of His physical body and blood is actually unproductive to its purpose.

The best proof you can demonstrate is your fruitful devotion.

therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/engl_mir.htm

You may find this website interesting…its about eucharistic miracles and the real presence

The first Eucharistic miracle was recorded here:

biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+24%3A13-35&version=RSVCE

This is correct. Transubstantiation is mystery strictly speaking - not contrary to reason, but nor provable by it either.

Benedicat Deus,
Latinitas

There are miracles that remain today that science still can find no explanation for. For example the Miracle of Lanciano.

Benedicat Deus,
Latinitas

I think it is actually a doctrine/dogma of the Second Vatican Council that one can know God exists by reason alone.

I am sorry to seem the naysayer…but, having been a student of philosophy back in ancient of days, at the beginning of my life as a seminarian, these are very different questions.

The question of the existence of God is apart from the doctrine of the Real Presence and the other points that you cite. Paul speaks of what is knowable to the human intellect, apart from faith, and what has been written by God upon the human heart. Saint Thomas Aquinas, in the prima pars of the Summa Theologica as well as in the Summa Contra Gentiles, speaks of the five proofs for the existence of God which relates to what the human intellect can know of God and His existence unaided by divine revelation.

As Saint Thomas says, by the human intellect, unaided by grace, we can know that God exists as well as aspects of His perfection and attributes. This is the essence of the whole field of natural theology, with which everyone should have some acquaintance through their spiritual reading and their continuing education in the faith. To reject natural theology is to not appreciate what Saint John Paul II taught in Fides et Ratio and even in Veritatis splendor.

We could not, however, know God’s inner life – that He is a trinity of Persons – unless He chose to reveal it.

I would tweak the question slightly: there’s no way to *assent to belief *in the Real Presence without Supernatural Faith.

The human being has an intellect and a will. In our intellect, we can understand the Real Presence and why it is consistent with reason. However, no matter what our intellect grasps about the Real Presence, our will cannot assent to this doctrine without grace. It is Supernatural Faith that motivates us to believe something in our will that our intellect already understands.

Therefore, while it’s true to say that we would not understand or know about the Real Presence without revelation, we would not be able to **believe **it without grace, without Faith. Faith cannot be wrestled out of God’s hands with our intellect. It cannot be earned by some massive effort of some genius mind. Only grace can give us Faith, although we can dispose ourselves to have Faith with prayer and, if we are in a state of grace, we can merit an increase in Faith with good works.

Without Faith, we do not believe in the Real Presence, we only have a non-salvific, intellectual opinion.

But Faith isn’t a lack of reason. It just belongs to a different faculty of the human soul. Reason belongs to the intellect, but Faith is proper* to the will.*

Indeed, in fact, regarding the Miracle of Lanciano, science actually supports the Miracle.
The Catholic Church, 1300 years ago backed the Lanciano event as a Miracle, not knowing what the advancements in science would bring.
And a couple of decades ago, scientists confirmed the event through modern testing techniques.
It is a Miracle.

It is shown by some passages in the Bible. Jesus says at the last supper, “This is my body” and “this is my blood” (as at Mt 26:26-28) It is hard to be clearer than that. Also by what is said in the 6th chapter of the Gospel of Saint John. However, since the Bible is a channel of divine revelation, I am not sure this fits the bill with you, since you ask this to be shown without divine revelation,

I apologize for not understanding the question in my answer. But I guess I don’t understand the question. As mgdspencer mentioned, Divine Revelation is read and professed at the Mass. Faith is required.

I of course believe there have been Eucharistic miracles. But I think you give too much value to evidence. There have and always will be skeptics who will not believe no matter how much evidence they have. Audio, video and photograph can be easily discounted as forgeries. I do think personal experience can have significant weight, but even that is not enough to shake some who don’t want to believe.

This should help some. The Eucharist IS Scriptural

Jesus beautifully explains the Eucharist in the bread of life discourse John 6:49-70

several questions come up for any reader, particularly a Catholic reader on the last question.

1. Why did most of Jesus followers do the unthinkable, and walk away from Him and His teaching on this… saying it’s too hard to listen to?[61] , [67]

Jesus said
[65] But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning, who they were that did not believe,……

2. So one could also ask, why would Jesus even bother with them knowing in advance they had no faith and would walk away, In spite of Jesus even performing miracles for them?

It’s clear to me, He did all that, and it was recorded for us and for those of no faith, in order to make the following point. If even God Himself, the one who spoke in the beginning, and all that is in creation, came into being, was unable to freely convince them of this truth about the Eucharist, then it shouldn’t be a deterrent in any way for any of us, if we try to convince anyone of the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist and they don’t accept us either. God honors free will that He gave us. He does NOT force ANYONE to believe against their will or to be with Him against their will. And we need to remember to always take His lead. Free will, is a HUGE gift but it comes with HUGE responsibilities, and the consequences are both good and bad on our soul depending on our choices.

in addition

Jesus still gives us miracles to see the proof of what He said. And those miracles endure to our day.

For example.

a short 4 min video that explains the particulars of this miracle and the individual elements that have lasted without any preservatives, for 1200+ years after the event…

The Eucharistic Miracle of Lanciano

[LIST]
*]The Flesh is real Flesh. The Blood is real Blood.
*]The Flesh and the Blood belong to the human species. (blood type AB)
*]The Flesh consists of the muscular tissue of the heart.
*]In the Flesh we see present in section: the myocardium, the endocardium, the vagus nerve and also the left ventricle of the heart for the large thickness of the myocardium.
*]The Flesh and the Blood have the same blood-type: AB (Blood-type identical to that which Prof. Baima Bollone uncovered in the Holy Shroud of Turin).
*]In the Blood there were found proteins in the same normal proportions (percentage-wise) as are found in the sero-proteic make-up of fresh normal blood.
*]The preservation of the Flesh and of the Blood, which were left in their natural state for twelve centuries and exposed to the action of atmospheric and biological agents, remains an extraordinary phenomenon.
[/LIST]
**
3. With all the evidence so easily and readily available to ANYONE who cares to investigate, why do Catholics walk away from the Church and the Eucharist each year to either go dormant in their faith or to join some heretical group? The reason is, Faith needs to be fed. Otherwise it dies.

This is why there are Huge consequences to our free will, our choices and actions. It’s why for example, once we know the truth, and deliberately miss mass on Sunday, that consequence on our soul is dire. #22

This is also why to knowingly be outside the Catholic Church, there is no salvation for that person.**

The Sacrament of His Body and Blood is not an instrument for conversion, but Spiritual food for the already converted.

You don’t consume His Eucharist to believe, you consume because you believe and obey His Word to remain strong in Him.

DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.