Is there such a thing as a "Traditionalist Sympathizer"

Or “Traditionalist Lite?” I mean, I guess there is such a thing because I am one, but is there a place for us?

In a nutshell, at 37 I am totally post-VII. I’ve done a fair amount of reading on traditional Catholocism, and have gone to several Latin Masses, both FSSP and SSPX. I believe that the Latin Mass is vastly superior, and that Vatican II has been a huge detriment to the Church.

That said, I belong to and go to a N.O. parish. If it was just me I might join the FSSP parish, but because of family and distance, that’s not going to happen. I don’t follow the conviction that the N.O. is invalid or evil in itself, and I don’t even dislike it, but I dislike what has been made of it - the music, communinion in the hand, tons of eucharistic ministers, etc.

Everywhere we’ve lived, we’ve always had to “shop” around for the least offensive parish. None of them are great, but some are much worse than others. If you’ve got a real crucifix, statues, holy water, kneelers, missals in the pews, and a priest who isn’t blatantly heretical, that’s about the most we can hope for.

It seems like there is no voice for those in-between full traditionals who want to go back to pre-Vatican II, and those who want to maintain or even push past the status quo. There’s got to be a ton of people that feel the same way I do, even more than there are traditionalists. And yet there are tons of resources and organizations for full traditional Catholics, but no apparent voice for those that want the N.O. Mass in English but celebrated the way probably 95% of those who signed off on it envisioned it.

I think neither traditionalists nor modernists really want people like my wife and me. I don’t even know what to call myself, because “orthodox Catholic” get’s mixed up with Orthodox, and “conservative Catholic” implies a political position.

Am I wrong? Is there a movement I’m missing?

It’s hard, because I feel I’ve been robbed of so much richness. I have a hard time even figuring out how to be more “traditional-leaning” in a N.O. mass. I just recently found out for the first time that back in the day, Catholics said “My Lord and My God” when the Eucharist was presented. I don’t even remember how I came across it. How beautiful, so I say it to myself now. Is there any “guide” of things like that? I mean, communion on the tongue and not holding hands is easy, but I don’t even know what else we’ve lost. Heck, for a long time, I didn’t even know communion on the tongue was an option.

Is there any resources about that kind of stuff?

I guess I’m looking for guidance on how to live my faith this way, recognizing this might not even be the correct forum. If there are others like me, what are the little things you do to fight the good fight?

Also, if it makes a difference, I’m northeast of Atlanta (and yes, I know many other people have it much worse than we do in the Atlanta diocese). I’ve recently heard St. Patricks in Norcross might be my kind of place. If anyone has any other local-related feedback, I’d be interested in that as well.

I’m right there with you :slight_smile:

I can attend a Latin Mass but its mid-day and I really like to rise and shine with Mass. And sometimes I prefer a vernacular mass because of the participation factor and like you I was born post V2. To be honest, I like the freedom to choose but I would feel a dread loss if TLM were not there.

However one side of me always ponders if the vernacular was a bad move. With the influx of so many Catholics from Mexico and Central America into the USA we see more and more Spanish language Masses and it breaks my heart knowing that if we Catholics were all attending Latin Mass we could all feel at home in same services and there would be one less wall of separation.

I wish y’all could attend a Missa Cantata - a sung High Mass in which the congregation responded almost as much as today but in Latin. I grew up with that being the norm for the main Mass on Sunday. About the only difference is that there was no Psalm, Memorial Acclamation and Sign of Peace. We chanted the Kyrie, Gloria, Credo, Preface, Sanctus, Pater Noster and Agnus Dei in Latin in addition to all of the congregational responses we have today. That we did not participate back then is a fabrication.

Me too. We have only one EF Mass in our diocese and it is over an hour away. I could get my kids (not sure about my husband) up at the crack of dawn on Sunday to go there but I would have to give up teaching CCE and my kids would have to give up serving at the altar in our home parish. We would effectively be Latin Mass attendees with no real parish life.

I used to attend the Sunday afternoon EF before it was nixed.

We don’t have FSSP here and I’m not going to go down the SSPX path.

But I am learning my prayers in Latin, most of them my kids already know. :smiley: I am educating myself on more traditional spiritual practices. I watch the EF whenever it comes on EWTN and keep praying.

P.S. If you find or found the “movement” let me know.

I agree. There are a lot of Hispanics in our parish and if we had a Latin Mass I think it might do a lot to unite us.

What if the N.O. was used the way it was intended? It really is not that hard to use more reverent music, move the choir to a choir loft so they aren’t distracting (and they get better acoustics anyway) , and move the Tabernacle to behind the alter instead of off in come corner or (in some awful cases) another room!

Our Cathedral is a beautiful with a big dome and everything, but the Tabernacle is shoved into a corner! :mad: the eyes are drawn to the center there is no reason Christ shouldn’t be there.

I am encouraged by the young priests ordained lately. They’ve seem to have gotten much improved formation.

Has anyone read “Ugly as Sin” by Michael Rose? It’s a good read.

If you don’t mind, where do you learn more about traditional spiritual practices? I just know this is a book dying to be written, before all the pre-VII priests and Catholics have passed on.

I understand the frustration with what to call yourself. I always referred to myself as a “traditional Catholic” until I came here to CAF. Now I just call myself Catholic. :o No adjective required. :wink:

Joe 5859, you have the right idea.

There’s more to being a Traditional Catholic than a preference for the Extraordinary Form.

Patience, forbearance, humility, forgiveness, charity, being strict with oneself and kind to others, and especially doing your best to think the best about them, are all traditional, too.

And ALL the approved devotions of the Church, and especially the recommended ones such as the Divine Office, are also traditional.

All things considered, the EF is NOT the biggest ingredient in traditionalism.

I guess I’m looking for guidance on how to live my faith this way, recognizing this might not even be the correct forum.

This most certainly IS the correct forum! All those people who post that we are all supposed to care about the technical details of this or that Bishops’ personal career choices, we ar all suppsed to label ourselves with alphabet soup, etc are flat-out WRONG to be creating the impression that they represent any kind of authority or definition of who the Traditionals are.

There is in fact no separation between traditional catholicism and average Catholics. If you don’t have any kind of 1962 or related TLM near you, the best thing might be to decide to make a special trip once every couple of months or so to the nearest one even if you have to arrange to stay over and make a weekend of it. Get together with the occasional local sympathizer you meet and eventually you will be able to find a hospitable parish near your home.

No Catholic is committing any kind of sin to shift between the nearest available Mass in any form and the most traditional Mass he can find. It is not even any kind of sin to choose to attend an N-O Mass for personal preference once in awhile out of fellowship with family and friends who prefer that, or for any other reason.

It is a very grave sin for people to try to persuade others that they cannot be good Catholics while participating in *any *Catholic Sacrament that is approved by the Church. Lay-persons are NOT responsible for the esoteric connections of any priest or bishop to the authority of Rome. If you are attending a Mass in a consecrated Catholic church and it is being celebrated by an ordained Catholic priest, that is enough. You do not have to check into his background and relationships to other organizations, etc in order to benefit spiritually from the Mass. God never expected his sheep to have to become religious gestapo agents in order to remain in the Communion of Saints. As long as you know you are following solid Catholic doctrine, it does not matter what is going on inside the brain of anyone else.

I guess I would call myself a “moderate traditionalist.” Maybe. I haven’t thought up a better label yet.
I prefer the EF but normally attend the OF, which I believe is valid but also believe it was hastily done and went too far in many ways (I personally think the so-called “1965 missal” was more in line with the actual directives of Sacrosanctum Concilium with the exception of expanded readings).
I like to pray in Latin and mix in Latin even in my “new” breviary, as well as like to use some of the older devotions.
I prefer reading the Fathers or other older classic spiritual works to nearly any “modern” theologians (though I do like Ratzinger and some others).

\Lay-persons are NOT responsible for the esoteric connections of any priest or bishop to the authority of Rome.\

How about those who are clearly NOT connected with the authority of Rome, such as SSPV or CMRI?

Anyone who is clearly not connected with Rome is clearly not Roman Catholic and would not be celebrating a Mass in a church owned by a Roman Catholic diocese. Key word in your post is *“clearly”. *

I still have my old pre-Vatican II missal which has a wonderful treasury of prayers and devotions. This got me started and I now have a small collection of older missals and prayer books, mostly found at used book sales and ebay. There is a lot available on-line too but you have to be careful - there are some crazies with websites. :eek: I still have a lot to learn - lifelong learning.

I would purchase an old Roman missal. They can sometimes be found in old book stores, on ebay or even at second hand shops. Most of them have many of the old devotions in them. Personally I would drive the long distance to an FSSP parish, which we are going to do this Sunday. We are taking four children of our friends that really “connect” with the old Roman Rite.

There is a little hope for the Novus Ordo that will be coming next year. To learn more about it go to the usccb.org/romanmissal. Think I got the website correct. It is indeed much more reverent than the current NO missal. We’ll still get Bishops that will try to “dodge” implementing of the new missal.

In fact we drive long distances as often as we can afford it just to attend the 1962 Rite.

God Bless

What is most important is Catholics being Catholic. Pray the 15 Mystery Holy Rosary every day without fail. Even if you want to pray the Lumenous mysteries - Pray OUR LADY’s Rosary First. Abstain from Meat on every Friday not just during Lent. Observe the Fast and Abstinence laws even if they arent required anymore by the NO. Pray the Traditional Catholic Prayers. Venerate Traditional Saints on their Feast days. Get a Pre Vatican II Missal like the St Josephs. You can buy a Traditional Calendar which observes the Feast days of Saints in a Traditional Manner. Like today for example - its the Feast of St Peter’s Chair at Antioch. (Feb 22 2010 ) Remember - there are no laws in the N O against worshipping GOD in a Traditional Manner. The most important thing is to Pray in a Catholic manner and to ask Almighty GOD for clarity. Kneel for Holy Communion and receive on the tongue. There is no law that says you CANT do that. When Catholics start being Catholic again - change will come. We can all be Catholic. No law says otherwise. Teach your Children to pray. In fact - teach your Children the Our Father - the Hail Mary and the Glory Be in Latin and when you pray the Holy Rosary - alternate Latin to English. Or whatever vernacular is spoken in the home. There are so many things we can do as Catholics to preserve the Faith.

Pax

The book has already been written. It’s called the Roman Catholic Daily Missal 1962. It is available from directly from Angelus Press.

You can practice using it here:

St. Michael’s Church
715 Hardscrabble Road
Roswell, GA
[770] 992-8171
Sunday: 10:00am
Saturday: 9:00am

and/or here:

St. Francis de Sales
587 Landers Drive
Mableton, GA
(770) 948-6888
Sunday: 9:00 a.m. & 11:30 a.m.
Holydays: 9:00 a.m. & 8:00 p.m.
Monday-Thursday: 6:30 a.m. & 9:00 a.m.
Friday: 9:00 a.m. & 7:00 p.m.
Saturday: 7:30 a.m. & 9:00 a.m.

GKaplan,
What a great post. I feel exactly the way you do. If you find an answer to your question then please let us know. Maybe you could start a group here at CA.

Thanks for all the great responses on here. I have recently discovered Una Voce Georgia and I’m going to try to help get a Latin Mass up here in my “neck of the woods.”

I’m pretty sure I will never worship exclusively in the EF, however, I do strongly believe that broad availability of the Latin Mass is essential to a resurgence in the Church.

I also believe that exposure to the EF will greatly improve the way the OF is practiced.

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