Is this a credible source of reason for attending the Latin Mass?

I am thoroughly confused to the point of desperation.

At the beginning of Lent, after reading a book on exorcisms, a couple of Google’s later, I came across this webpage:

tldm.org/News4/WarningsFromBeyond.1of3.htm

In essence, it is a vast transcript of an exorcism held in the 1970’s, and the demons claim to be speaking by proxy of Our Lady. Their revelations, led me to seek more information, which essentially led me to search for the SSPX and begin attending the old mass.

I have been 4 times, at first I enjoyed the humility it demanded, the reverence it displayed and the sheer simplicity of it all. Before last night’s Mass, I attended confession and asked the priest for advice on a query I have raised here previously.

forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=439951

I was told to completely dismiss it, accused of spiritual vanity and told I wasn’t special, in a mocking tone I might add. My point is he made me feel like **** and that I had sincerely bothered him with such nonsense. Anyway, it has been playing on my mind and today I attended the new mass at my local church I used to attend, prior to Lent. Partly due to this, but mainly for sheer convenience as it would have taken me 2 hours to get there today.

The new mass seemed so vulgar and commercial in comparison, I cringed at the readings, the people taking hosts in their hands and lay people distributing the host. It made me want to go back to the old mass, which I will probably do for Holy Saturday.

Ok, so back to my question; I have laid such wilful conviction in this webpage and am just not certain that I am doing the right thing. The words from the demons seem to make sense and I do appreciate that scripture tells us again and again of the devils deceptiveness, for some reason I just felt that God meant for me to read that page.

I keep reading posts on here about the SSPX in schism and the SSPX should be avoided etc but then I think the SSPX ARE following the right path and perhaps thats why they are ostracised.

Then the weird buzzy thing happened while I was praying the rosary again this week and I am just thoroughly thoroughly confused and stressed about it all. I don’t want to offend God by going to the wrong Mass, but then I don’t want to attend a church when I don’t trust the priest. I have prayed for guidance, but sometimes I can’t tell whether the thoughts coming into my head are angels or demons telling me what to do. If I hear a thought telling me to go to the SSPX church, is it a demon getting me into to trouble or an angel telling me the right thing to do, or am I just borderline schizophrenic!

Sorry about the length of this; I find this forum fascinating and know that you guys will be able to help me.

Many thanks.

I think that you better get back to the basics of your catechism. I think that you are trying to make the Mass into something that is about you and not about God.

Do not waste time with trying to read into some web printout about exorcism from a group that discusses the Bayside apparitions. Stick to what st. John of the Cross said:

“The desire for private revelations deprives faith of its purity, develops a dangerous curiosity that becomes a source of illusions, fills the mind with vain fancies, and often proves the want of humility, and of submission to Our Lord, Who, through His public revelation, has given all that is needed for salvation. We must suspect those apparitions that lack dignity or proper reserve, and above all, those that are ridiculous. This last characteristic is a mark of human or diabolical machination. Stay away from visions, apparitions, and miracles as much as you can. Be careful of visions, even when they are authentic.”

You should attend the EF Mass if it strengthens your faith and spiritually enriches your life. It is okay if you have a preference for this Mass over the OF Mass. However, you must never be disrespectful towards the OF Mass and you must always believe that it is a valid Mass.

I think you should ignore the words of the demon because they are liars. You should not allow them to influence your life or your choices.

Regarding the SSPX:

I am sympathetic towards the SSPX and I believe Archbishop Lefebvre was right. The SSPX is not in schism and the excommunications have been lifted. The SSPX are a Catholic Society with valid priests. You can assist at their Masses. However, their canonical status is irregular, and until this is resolved, the priests of the SSPX do not exercise any legitimate ministry within the Church. Because of this, they are not allowed to hear confessions and you should not attend the Sacrament of Penance at an SSPX chapel.

I see no problem in attending the SSPX Masses but I think it would be better if you could find an EF Mass celebrated by a priest in communion with your local Bishop until the canonical status of the SSPX is resolved.

Hi Mary, short answer : You may attend the SSPX Mass if it is out of the good it does your soul. If you are going there out of rejection of the Post VII Church, then that is where you can cross the line into the realm of schismatic behavior. If it is the Mass itself you desire, you can go there. There is nothing wrong with going to Mass there, and going to confession at a diocesan parish if you so desire.

The SSPX is not in schism, but the clergy are suspended at this time.

Thank you to those who have answered so far; you have given me things to think about.

Demsey1919, your right, I was disrepectful of the new mass I attended today and for that I’m sorry, thanks for pointing it out.

Cristiano - thanks for the St. John quote; very helpful also.

Demsey1919, your right, I was disrepectful of the new mass I attended today and for that I’m sorry, thanks for pointing it out.

I am not judging you for having these thoughts because I have had them myself in the past. In my opinion, the EF Mass is vastly superior to the OF Mass; and this has led me to criticise the OF Mass in the past. However, while it is ok to have personal preferences, it is wrong to question the validity of the OF Mass. We must respect all valid Masses; but there is nothing wrong in preferring one form over another.

In short, no. That website looks very NOT credible.

And even if it were . . . why would you take the word of demons? They’re hardly a good source of information about the Church. :shrug:

If you are attracted to the Latin Mass, go. There’s no need to try to justify it via heresy.

The Bayside Prophecies were condemned by the Church years ago. Before she passed away, the woman responsible for them, Veronica, admitted that she made the whole thing up. Ignore this website for the rubbish it is; it is not within Church teaching, the Blessed Mother never had anything to with it, and Catholics are forbidden to promote it. Attend the Latin Mass if you wish to do so, not because of this website or anything connected with the Bayside Prophecies.

See if the TLM is celebrated by the Priestly Fraternity of Saint Peter, or the Institute of Christ The King: Sovereign Priest, in your area. These groups are TOTALLY in union with Rome.
The excommunications have been lifted, all right, but the SSPX is STILL in schism, and should be avoided.

Link to Fr. John Rizzo ex-SSPX. Now FSSP, and currently based in Christchurch, New Zealand.
Plus other SSPX info.

sspx.agenda.tripod.com/id21.html

Mary,

1.) Bayside is not credible and you shouldn’t plot your spiritual course based on reported testimony of demons.

2.) That said, I believe you are on the right course with the Society and the Latin Mass. I’d get this book and apply it’s principles to your situation along with counsel from a Traditional priest.

3.) Look into the facts. I’d recommend Michael Davies’ trilogy on the Mass and on Archibshop Lefebvre. Both sets are available through the previous link.

Good luck.

The SSPX is in schism, and has no Church authority to celebrate Mass or to dispense the Sacraments (except in dire emergency; eg imminent death).
Also; Sunday SSPX Mass does not satisfy our Sunday Mass obligation.

Link to some Qs and As re SSPX:
www.catholic.com/thisrock/quickquestions/keyword/SSPX

Sunna,

You are quoting old and outdated information. The link you are citing is still using Ecclessia Dei from '88 as the primary source. This is 2010!

Since then there have been statements from the head of Ecclesia Dei himself stating the Society is not in schism and that attendance at their Masses fulfills the Sunday obligation.

latin-mass-society.org/perl-011803.htm

renewamerica.com/columns/mershon/070807

Try pulling the other leg!

The SSPX is STILL in schism. Why would there be talks going on between Rome and the SSPX if that were not the case?

Anyway, the loudmouth Bishop Williamson still thinks there`s a schism between the True Church (the “Society”) and the heretical Vatican.

Stevus is correct

If an Order of Clergy with 4 Bishops is in formal schism, why would a pope lift their excommunications ? Why would he grant 2 of their requests ?

They are suspended. Please read Can. 1323

And yes it can satisfy the Sunday obligation

“If your PRIMARY reason for attending (an SSPX mass) were to manifest your desire to separate yourself from communion with the Roman Pontiff AND those in communion with him, it would be a sin. If your intention is to simply participate in a Mass according to the 1962 Missal for the sake of devotion, this would not be a sin.”

Monsignor (Now Archbishop) Camille Perl Secretary of the Pontifical Ecclesia Dei Commission

He isn’t encouraging one go to SSPX Masses, but if one is walking in for the right reason, that being to pray the Mass, then it’s not a sin. If one is fed up with his/her EF parish, and goes to the SSPX Mass out of rejection of the authority of the Church, then yes, that is considered schismatic. In the eyes of the Church.

There is no schism.

Also; Sunday SSPX Mass does not satisfy our Sunday Mass obligation.

This is false according to the ED commission iirc.

Get with the times.

Hi, I feel very strongly about what I’m about to write, but please pray about this :slight_smile:

according to everything the Saints said (also through private revelation, I might add) - God is never pleased with disobedience. Even if something is good in itself, if it’s done in disodience, it becomes bad. The SSPX and especially schismatic groups, are not loyal to the Holy Father and some of them dont’t believe Pope Benedict is a valid Pope at all. This is disobedience and I don’t think it comes from God. Maybe they have the right Mass, but that’s all they have… maybe the devil lead them astray by getting them to follow the right path but in the wrong way. he’s good at twisting the truth…

If you feel lead to the TLM, I suggest finding a parish that’s fully obedient to Rome. What about the FSSP? They’re an order that was started by JPII I think, and they celebrate the Latin Mass, and really well I might add. They’re fully Catholic, at the same time very traditional. Also, maybe you live around an oratory…? they usually have the TLM there too. So see you can follow your convictions but without resorting to a disobedient group :slight_smile:

All those schismatic groups… they create disharmony in the Church… the Holy Spirit wouldn’t want more division! dont 'base everything you believe in 1 private revelation… I like the Latin Mass and you can for sure go to it if you want… but don’t go to the SSPX unless they are brought into full communion. You said, maybe they’re right and that’s why they’re being ostracized. But they’re not being ostracized for being traditional or celebrating the Latin Mass. There are many groups that are not ostracized but are equally as traditional (ie: FSSP). The problem with SSPX is disobedience…that is all.

Also, when a Catholic group is ostracized by the world, that shows they’re probably doing something right :wink: but when a Catholic group is opposed by the Church, - the Body of Christ, - how can that be a good sign?

I suggest simply finding a TLM that is not the SSPX. Also, remember the Mass is always holy… no matter where you go. If you go to the Novus Ordo parish, don’t give in to temptation to look down on it even if it doesn’t seem as reverent. Christ is still present there and it’s still Holy Mass.

God bless

I just realized something else… the link is from a website about the Bayside apparitions. These apparitions have been condemned by the Church. Don’t follow them!!!

the one thing the devil can’t counterfeit is obedience to the Church… because this comes from humility. But ALL the Saints put it first. For example, St Faustina had visions of Jesus… and her confessor told her she’s being deceived. In humility, she obeyed Him and began ignoring the visions though this caused her much pain, I’m sure. Then, Jesus appeared to her again and said He is pleased with her obedience to her confessor, even though the confessor was wrong. Soon after, her visions were accepted. :slight_smile:

I know the exorcism article itself isn’t related to Bayside, or Veronica Lueken, but the website itself is, and the Church has said those revelations are not from God or Mary. The Church is lead by the Holy Spirit… if it said these revelations are false, that means we must believe they are false. So I’d be very skeptical of this…

of course, there’s NOTHING wrong with the TLM, in fact it’s a great Mass, and if you want to attend a TLM parish (in communion with the Church) - that is great :slight_smile:

God bless

It is the Pope who speaks the truth.

this is one of the things the demon was forced to say in the exorcism… and this was in 1975. This means that the Papacy today IS valid, and the sedevancatists are wrong.

concerning novelties in practices and the Mass, none of the novelties are actually Church teachings (Church teachings have not changed), so we are free to follow the traditions, and I have to say I get the impression that Pope Benedict likes them too. :slight_smile: just don’t go to a disobedient group cause that’s even worse.

God bless

A: We racked our brains for a very long time down there (he points downward), until we succeeded in getting Communion in the hand under way.[8] Communion in the hand… Communion in the hand is very good for us in Hell, believe me!

E: We order you, in the name… to say only what Heaven orders you! Speak only the truth, you have no right to lie, so leave off, stop it!

A: She (he points upward) wishes me to say…

E: Tell the truth, in the name…!

A: She wishes me to say… that if She, the Great Lady, were still living on earth. She would receive Communion in the mouth, but on her knees, and She would bow deeply, like this (he makes the gesture).

E: In the name of the Blessed Virgin… and of the Thrones, by order of the Thrones, tell the truth!

A: I have to say the Communion must not be received in the hand. The Pope himself gives Communion in the mouth. He does not want Communion to be given in the hand at all. That comes from the Cardinals.

you might be interested to know (if you don’t already know) that the Prefect of the liturgy in the Vatican said that Pope Benedict wants to recommend everyone to receive the Eucharist in the mouth, and kneeling. :slight_smile:

The Pope, Jesus Christ and the Blessed Virgin are the ones who must he obeyed.

:thumbsup: this is still true today.

DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.