Is This Ok ?


#1

I am wondering what you all think of this:
Is it ok to be on welfare so you can have more children?
We have couples in our church who could very well have more children as they are financially well off but only have two children.
But we also have a family who have seven children and openly brag that they are on welfare, the father does work but doesn’t make enough money to support their family. They tell anyone who will listen that they should have more children like God wants and if they can’t afford it just get on welfare like them. They openly chastize people that don’t have as many children and if you tell them you are just not going to have more children than you can afford they are just excited to let you know that there is a way around that. They told me personally that God wants them to have as many as they can and he wants them to be on welfare because thats what it is there for. I’m all for having as many children as you can but personally I think you have to pay for them yourselves and not expect other peoples tax money to pay for them, they always have a comeback for me so I just avoid talking to them at all. Maybe it is ok, I don’t know, I would get a job before I would go on welfare, even though I really love being home with my kids if it got to the point that we were really not getting by and our children were suffering because of it I would work also. What are some others opinions on this subject and how can I talk to these people without losing my temper, I don’t want to do that as that won’t witness to them at all.
Thanks :hmmm:


#2

My understanding is that it has always been permissible to include financial considerations in the decision to adopt Natural Family Planning. Intentionally abusing welfare strikes me as wrong. Some people want to streamline their families to the 2 kids they know they can afford to raise in a very comfortable, upper-middle class way, and this is where I think we should feel more challenged.


#3

I agree, I’m very frustrated to see so many in my church with only two children, both parents working, house and vacation home, both parents buying brand new veichles etc. I don’t know what type of message they are sending to their children other than that this is the American dream? To have it all? and on the same hand I find it wrong to have so many children and not be willing to except that you have to be able to pay for your own children and not just have babies and let the government pay for it.

I praise those families who are open to life but also willing to figure out how they will pay for that life without going on welfare, when people do that it just puts a huge stereotype on large families that they have to rely on welfare to have those large families and I do also know some very hard working large families who don’t take a dime of govt. assistance but budget to the penny and still have very fulfilling wonderful lives and are by no means in the poor house, they just know how to stretch their money and not spend it on unnessessary junk, kudos to those. :thumbsup:


#4

I agree with the others. I work to support my family and for them to take away money that my family needs through taxes (because that is what it is there for) is inexcusable. I am all for having as many children as they want, but if they want to do that they have a moral obligation to support those children even if the husband has to get a second full-time job.

That is not what welfare “is there for”. Welfare is a temporary safety net for people who are unable to provide for their families because they can’t find work. It is not there for long term living off the dole. It is not meant to be relied up. It should be a last resort.


#5

They sound like they are NUTS! To openly brag that you are not capable of taking care of your family…I couldn’t live with myself.

Accepting state and federal support also gives good argument to those who criticize large families.


#6

I’d just like to comment on the post about seeing families with only two children, a vacation home, etc. I can see how we would go to thinking right away of the selfishness of that couple. But, as a priest has pointed out to me (and I am humbled by it), we do not know the inner workings of that family therefore should not pass any kind of judgement. I hope no one takes offense at this comment as I’m just trying to pass along what has been passed onto me (that we cannot judge, it is not our job), which has been helpful in my life.


#7

I’m certainly not trying to judge anyone as I don’t know all there circumstances, I’m just talking about people I personally know that do this. My sister in law (my husbands sister) was never going to have children, they are so into their careers they change jobs every 6 months to one year, after 15 years of marriage her husband finally talked her into having one child and they got pregnant right away and had a child and she was back to work within 3 weeks of his birth, she did not want to have anymore but her husband really wanted one more and it took 6 years for him to convince her that he would take on the major child rearing so it would not affect her career so they had one more, they both work full time and some weekends, these children spend more time in daycare and with a nanny than with mom and dad and the parents have to have a new 5 bedroom home, pool, two brand new suv’s etc. and they see nothing wrong with them, they ask me, whats wrong with having it all, I don’t know what to say, they are not Catholic they are Lutheran but personally I know more Lutherans with a better attitude than this, what happened to family values and not worrying so much about keeping up with what the neighbors are doing? We as a society really have our prioroties mixed up :frowning: As for this couple at my church, they do brag about being on welfare because they think that because they are open to having as many babies as possible that God is providing for them (via welfare) I don’t say anything to them as I certainly don’t want them to quit coming to church, church is what they need, but I just hate how they go on and on like they have found some new way ( the welfare way) its terrible!


#8

I completely agree. We know of several people on welfare – reluctantly, but necessarily nonetheless. One friend has been asked, when going through the process of receiving government assistance, (she is expecting her third) – “Was this child unexpected?” She says, “No, just the unemployment!!” But intentionally relying on the system is a different situation altogether.

You asked how to approach them. Perhaps they would be interested to hear what the Holy Father has to say on the subject? I do not have the resources at my fingertips, but I do know the Holy Father calls us all to “responsible parenthood!” It doesn’t sound at all like this scenario fits the bill.


#9

my gosh, no, this is not OK, you don’t keep having children so you can collect welfare, that is very wrong in my opinion and why would you want to brag, if they started bragging around me I would just say excuse me and walk away, they will get the point or idea pretty quickly, I’d like to see them brag down at the welfare office. That is pretty shameless, but at some point the welfare office will catch on and will tell the mother she must get a job, I know as I worked for a county office for a couple years and both parents on welfare were expected to work and put children into daycare so don’t worry about that as it will catch up to them. No, this is not how God would intend for us to “provide for our own” welfare should be used in certain situations only and for as little time as possible.

Hope this helps,
God bles you


#10

Something doesn’t seem right with this story.

How much does it really cost to have children? While I don’t have a whole slew, I do have 4, and it just doesn’t seem like it has to cost a whole bunch.
My hunch is the number of kids is somewhat irrelevant. Unless perhaps we’re talking dozens. But even still, when you get into the really large family sizes they become somewhat self-sufficient communities. Older teens can off-set their own costs to some extent.


#11

This discussion is good; it adds another dimension to the Catholic position of “large families are good.”

In larger families, the effect of unemployment are probably more drastically felt and people have to go on welfare sooner than small families. So, not being a social worker, I would imagine they are more prone to qualifying for welfare.

The conservatives have a real point on this whole issue. This is a main reason why charity should be left to the churches/charity and not to government. When it is the government, it is their thinking,

“Well, they are just too big, too powerful, and evil anyway, so if I take money from them in an abusive manner, well, what’s the harm? It all evens out.”

No one would take that view if they were living in a halfway house provided by and attended by a convent of nuns. There is something more humbling about that and subsequently less abusive.

As far as how to bear witness to them, I am not sure. I think you have a right to complain. You could complain that when the government takes money out of your paycheck for welfare, it prevents you from being more charitable than you want to be.

Perhaps you are not the right one to complain though. It is probably an issue best taken up with your priest.


#12

I for the most part, listen to them, smile, say have a good day and walk away gritting my teeth, but your right, if the government didn’t take so much money out of my pocket I would be able to give more to the Catholic charity in our town, we do that already but I wish we could give more as they do an awesome job giving food, housing, clothing to those who are in need.
thanks for your input, I appreciate it so much.


#13

[quote=kamz] agree, I’m very frustrated to see so many in my church with only two children, both parents working, house and vacation home, both parents buying brand new veichles etc. I don’t know what type of message they are sending to their children other than that this is the American dream?
[/quote]

One definitely needs to be careful about what they assume when they see a Catholic with only 2 children. I only have 1. Had her at 36 years old, and it took me my entire adult life (after marriage) to have her. Not my choice–God’s choice.

And I can’t believe it’s to the point where I go to Mass with my one kid and wonder what others think of my small family, especially since we both work (even though I’m a freelancer and able to stay home with her). Fortunately, I don’t particularly care what they think, but sometimes it enters my mind.

JELane


#14

I have a problem with someone bragging about how easy it is to be on welfare, being unemployed and doing nothing to change that unemployed state. It is not right, St Paul said, if one does not work he should not eat. I do not know what to do about it though. I would not want to cut off benefits. It would mean the children woud suffer ( innocent lives must be protected after they are born as well as before ).


#15

JELane, I’m sorry for your situation my aunt and uncle tried to have children for 15 years and were blessed with one child and never did get pregnant again and they adore their darling 11 year old daughter. I’m certainly not talking about those type of situations, during fellowship and getting to know families at my church with couples get togethers I have actually listened to these families who only have two and they have a list of reasons why they will only have two, the reasons are always very material related. They tell me that in order for them to give their two children everything they need both of them must work so (girl and boy) can have all the latest clothes, shoes, hair styles, toys, so they can build that new fancy house and furnish it with all new furniture, so they can buy new suv’s and take vacations in the bahamas, I swear I have heard people talk this way and it is eye opening and I have actually felt bad that I could not give my kids more when I’m around these type of parents, I’ve actually found myself competing and tempted to spend more than we can so we can keep up, its very easy to get swept away.
But, for those who want more children, are open to more children but can’t become pregnant, that is not the same at all. I also know some awesome folks that have only one or two children not by choice but they don’t spoil the pants of their kids and have to buy all new things all the time, I’m just amazed how some people get so caught up in material things. Sorry, if I upset you I did not mean to.


#16

[quote=thisnthat]I’d just like to comment on the post about seeing families with only two children, a vacation home, etc. I can see how we would go to thinking right away of the selfishness of that couple. But, as a priest has pointed out to me (and I am humbled by it), we do not know the inner workings of that family therefore should not pass any kind of judgement. I hope no one takes offense at this comment as I’m just trying to pass along what has been passed onto me (that we cannot judge, it is not our job), which has been helpful in my life.
[/quote]

So very true. I can think of one possiblity. It is natural for parents to feel a need to provide for thier children. I have known many a professional who has been layed off do to downsizing or technological changes and has left middle-aged parents in a position of desperation. One may feel the need to aquire the wealth while one can. In an effort to avoid potential poverty inthe future. It may be fear, not greed, that encourages one to buy a “vaction home”. Ones “vacation home” may be anothers method of security.

Just a thought.


#17
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#18

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#19

NO! That’s disgusting. :mad:


#20

I’m sorry… but purposefully using a charitable system for your personal benefit is a form of stealing.

It’s there for those who need it… part of the welfare system is working with families to get them OFF the system. It’s a crutch, not a way of life.


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