I saw this very short video on youtube.com
I was wondering. Does it represent the Church’s view?
I saw this very short video on youtube.com
I was wondering. Does it represent the Church’s view?
He’s taking the “progressive view point”, not the traditional Catholic one.
No, the priest is not rejecting Christ, and yes, his statement reflects the Magisterium’s teachings, as much as can be gleaned from so short a clip. Entry into heaven is not simply parroting some sort of secret pass code.
I don’t understand this.
The Islamic faith teaches that Jesus is not the son of God. The Scripture says anyone who does not believe in the son of God is condemned.
Check out Lumen Gentium and Dominus Iesus. Also, as a previous poster said, it was only 28 seconds. We’ve all probably said things that, if only 28 seconds was recorded, would come across as wrong. I’d like to see the rest of what he said. But, the teaching of the Church is clear that the gates of Heaven are not barred to non-Catholics or even non-Christians. It’s just that if someone does enter Heaven, regardless of whether or not he has ever set foot in a Catholic Church in his life, he does so by Christ and through the Church.
I came across this short video today
It this how Catholic theology has always felt?
For instance, would Paul the apostle answer the question like this had he been asked, according to the Catholic perspective?
Here is a transcript of the Larry King interview, entitled "What Happens After We Die? - Spiritual Leaders Explore the Ultimate Mystery"
The priest says:
But I think there’s an important thing as a Christian for me to understand in my understanding of Jesus, that although I believe Jesus is the Son of God, and He is the source of salvation of all, I believe that he can be able to be expressed in ways far beyond what I can understand.
And so for me to condemn a person who loves the Father, a Jew or a Muslim who loves the Father, and say, ‘Well, Jesus is not happy’ . . .
[cross-talk and interruption - my guess is the priest was going to say: ‘Well, Jesus is not happy with them, and they cannot enter heaven.’]
It is certainly the teachings of Christ’s holy Church that salvation is through the merits of Jesus, and that not all who say ‘Lord, Lord’ will be saved, but only those who do the will of the Father. The Church never condemns anyone, whether a Christian, a Jew or a Muslim, and defers to the justice and mercy of God in matters related to individual’s salvation, since she teaches that God wishes for all to be saved, and there could well be ways of salvation beyond our human understanding, again only through the merits of Jesus Christ.
These are the teachings of the Church, whereas in years past some poorly catechised nuns would lash out and threaten hellfire if students didn’t memorize particular prayers as expected, doing so is not the Tradition of the Church, but the traditions of men.
Do you get all your religious thinking from stuff on YT? That’s one of the lousiest sources on the planet. Any crackpot with a computer can post anything that he wants and, as is the case of this video’s title, slant the thinking of others who are too dumb to do their own homework.
You should be doing your own homework too, investing in either one or both of these two authentic Catholic works in order to get correct information.
For instance, the catechism actually says:
Section 839 ff
**The Church and non-Christians **
839 "Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways."325
The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People,326 "the first to hear the Word of God."327 The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God’s revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews “belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ”,328 "for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable."329
840 And when one considers the future, God’s People of the Old Covenant and the new People of God tend towards similar goals: expectation of the coming (or the return) of the Messiah. But one awaits the return of the Messiah who died and rose from the dead and is recognized as Lord and Son of God; the other awaits the coming of a Messiah, whose features remain hidden till the end of time; and the latter waiting is accompanied by the drama of not knowing or of misunderstanding Christ Jesus.
841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day."330
842 The Church’s bond with non-Christian religions is in the first place the common origin and end of the human race:
All nations form but one community. This is so because all stem from the one stock which God created to people the entire earth, and also because all share a common destiny, namely God. His providence, evident goodness, and saving designs extend to all against the day when the elect are gathered together in the holy city. . .331
843 The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as "a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life."332
844 In their religious behavior, however, men also display the limits and errors that disfigure the image of God in them:
Very often, deceived by the Evil One, men have become vain in their reasonings, and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and served the creature rather than the Creator. Or else, living and dying in this world without God, they are exposed to ultimate despair.333
845 To reunite all his children, scattered and led astray by sin, the Father willed to call the whole of humanity together into his Son’s Church. The Church is the place where humanity must rediscover its unity and salvation. The Church is “the world reconciled.” She is that bark which “in the full sail of the Lord’s cross, by the breath of the Holy Spirit, navigates safely in this world.” According to another image dear to the Church Fathers, she is prefigured by Noah’s ark, which alone saves from the flood.334
No it’s not rejecting Christ.
The Priest talks about people who don’t believe implicitly
Kind of like what Billy Graham says Here youtu.be/axxlXy6bLH0
Then Here is they only guy who has the “REAL GOSPEL” old Catholic Bashing, I know in my own private judgment, better than you Papist do John MacArtur
O Praise Johnny Mac, James White, Matt Slick and all those other so called re-formed, TRUE GOSPEL, bible believing, preachers. Where would Christianity be without you all!
Sorry for the tone, just tired of memed polemics!
Ok, I am here to learn Catholic theology.
If Catholics teach that anyone can be saved, believer in Jesus or not, that is something important to know.
However, how do we interpret verses such as :
“Brothers, my heart’s desire and my prayer to God is that Israel might be saved. For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge; for being ignorant of God’s righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they have not submitted to the righteousness of God. For Christ is the consummation of the Law unto righteousness for everyone who believes” (Rom 10:1-4).
If Paul thought that being a “good” Jew can make on attain final salvation, then what do we make of the significance of Paul’s prayer that Israel might be saved?
“For the doctrine of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing; but to us who are being saved it is the power of God” (1 Cor 1:18)
“Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is the AntiChrist who denies the Father and the Son. No one who disowns the Father. He who confesses the Son has the Father also” (1 John 2:21-22)
It might be beneficial to find out what the Church declares, rather than what individual Catholics theologians may ponder.
How old is this teaching?
Or I should say what is the earliest testimony concerning this
Dupe threads merged where they belong as per Forum Rules
Look it up in the footnotes. generally about 2,000 years.
Actually in the Catechism, it says the following:
*“Outside the Church there is no salvation”
846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:
Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336
The only exception to this rule is if someone has not heard the gospel and they do not know of Christ’s church.
Therefore, if the Father in the youtube.com video is referring to muslim friends that he has witnessed the faith to, then he is wrong
Or correct me
No one has said that the priest in the video was correct. He may be just doing a bad job of expressing what the Church teaches. Much of what he says is ambiguous and you have to remember that talking heads on TV tend to go find “experts” they know will suit their agenda, so they are always suspect. If that had been Cardinal Schonborne or the Pope then it would be different, but some random priest. :shrug:
We Catholics recognize that we are not God and therefore are not qualified to know anyone else’s final end with any certainty, mainly because no one knows what transpires between the person and God in their final moments.
Get copies of both those catechisms and study them carefully, including the footnotes and you will probably find, as I have, that it is the most accurate and eloquent presentation of Christian belief I have ever seen.
You personally really do need to follow St. Paul’s mandate where he says,
“Carefully study to present thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.” (2 Timothy 2:15 )
I don’t think so.
“No one comes to the Father but by me.” (John 14:6)
I think this statement applies in a much broader context. Jesus Christ is the Son of God; the Word of God. Somebody like Enoch didn’t know Jesus Christ; yet he “walked with God” (Genesis 4:22).
I think that whether he knew it or not, Enoch could reach the Father only through his Word, through “Christ”. The good news for Christians is that the word has become flesh and dwelt among us.
This is a VERY good suggestion.
This is another VERY good suggestion.
May I humbly suggest that you take time to read, ponder, and pray over all of the excellent answers you have been given here over the last few weeks?
Lumen gentium and Dominus Iesus are available to read for free online. (I’m not going to take the time to provide links since you do not seem to be availing yourself of the wisdom thrown your way).
About the topic of this thread, I found that this helped me to understand:
God CAN save anybody He wants to in any way He wants to, hence a non-Catholic can be saved. However, God has revealed to us the best way, Plan A as it were, is through the Catholic Church, and as already explained, even a person who has never heard of the Church or Jesus, if he/she is saved, it is through Jesus Christ.
I don’t know if you just like asking for information you could readily read up on yourself. Some people are like that. But if you could be arsed to do a Google search and look on reliable sources like:
catholic.com (where you are right now! Tons of orthodox articles and info)
vatican.va (contains many invaluable Papal documents)
papalencyclicals.net (contains many documents, especially older ones)
catholicculture.org (Has details on good, bad, and meh Catholic websites, and tons of articles)
scripturecatholic.com (Wanna know how Scripture and Catholicism meet? Look here!)
newadvent.org (writings of the Church Fathers, the Catholic Encyclopaedia…)
Among others, you could be well on your way to being much better informed and prepared with better, more productive questions. :D]
Hope this helps. Seriously. Give these websites a once over.
:D:D Are you a Brit? Never heard this said by any other than a Brit!