Is this right?


#1

“No one, even if he pour out his blood for the name of Christ, can be saved unless he remain within the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.” Pope Eugene IV


I ask you in the name of Jesus: Is is “infallible” teaching right?


#2

Who said it was infallible? Not everything that comes out of the mouth of the pope is infallible.


#3

[quote=Lorik]Who said it was infallible? Not everything that comes out of the mouth of the pope is infallible.
[/quote]

It IS considered infallible by the Catholic church. It comes from Pope Eugene IV when he defined ex cathedra at the Council of Florence on Feb. 4, 1442.


#4

The word remain suggests this is directly aimed at those in the Church who leave.

Also question of how non catholic christians joined in some way to Church.

Heat resistant clothing on and off to forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=11304

for some feisty debate…:banghead:


#5

Yes, properly understood.


#6

[quote=Sherlock]Yes, properly understood.
[/quote]

I agree.:slight_smile:

I remember reading that this also includes the “invisible church” those who are connected to the Catholic Church in some way. I will look for that quote, and post it if I find it.


#7

Make sure you are reading the whole writing so that you don’t take it out of context, there may have been further explanation you are unaware of. It is easy to take one line of a speech, and twist it…

A person who knows the Truth of the Catholic Church and turns away from that Truth for something easier or out of pride etc. Is intentionally turning away from Christ. However any of the Protestant, and yes Evangelical, Bible churches or denominations are based on bits and pieces of Truth from Catholic teaching… if they are using the Bible, they are using a Catholic book which came out of Sacred Tradition. Because of this it is through their connection with the Catholic Church that they have salvation. Many would deny this but it is because they are either ignorant of history or too full of pride and dislike for the Catholic Church to admit it. It would be a bitter pill to swallow for anti-Catholics to admit they received the Bible through Sacred Tradition.


#8

Of course it’s true. Everyone who is saved is saved through the Catholic Church. This may not require formal affiliation in this life, (if one doesn’t realize that he should be Catholic.) Nevertheless, the grace of salvation is through the Church.

JimG


#9

I made a mistake. I want to change my vote. I took the statement at face value. Seeing that the statement was made before the Protestant Reformation it makes more sense to me. Of course there is no salvation w/o Christ. That’s not to say that it’s not possible for a non-Christian to be saved but he couldn’t be saved w/o Christ dying for his sins and the graces that come to the world to save humankind through the Church.


#10

Yes it is infallible.:bowdown2:

Pio


#11

interesting to place the authority of the church into the form of a democracy…


#12

[quote=homer]“No one, even if he pour out his blood for the name of Christ, can be saved unless he remain within the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.” Pope Eugene IV


I ask you in the name of Jesus: Is is “infallible” teaching right?
[/quote]

Yes, it is right.

Gerry


#13

[quote=e-catholic]I agree.:slight_smile:

I remember reading that this also includes the “invisible church” those who are connected to the Catholic Church in some way. I will look for that quote, and post it if I find it.
[/quote]

I would be careful with your wording of the “invisible church”. This lends itself to the heretical protestant view that there is not “visible church” but that the true “church” is all the true believers in Christ regardless of denomination, there in fact is no one church that Christ himself established.


#14

[quote=Tanais]I would be careful with your wording of the “invisible church”.
[/quote]

I agree. The Church is and was intended to be, and was established by Christ to be, visible.

Yet, not everyone realizes this because they have been taught the opposite. The Church is necessary for salvation. But just as God is not bound by the sacraments, his mercy reaches out to all. Salvation, whenever it is achieved, is through the graces of the Church, whether one knows it or not.

JimG


#15

posted by **JimG **
Salvation, whenever it is achieved, is through the graces of the Church, whether one knows it or not.

:yup: :yup: :yup::yup::yup::yup: Well said!


#16

[quote=homer]It IS considered infallible by the Catholic church. It comes from Pope Eugene IV when he defined ex cathedra at the Council of Florence on Feb. 4, 1442.
[/quote]

There have only been two ex cathedra statements made, both dealing with Mary. Why do you believe this statement was made ex cathedra?

Remember, in 1442 all Christians were Catholic. To be in the Church was to be in the Catholic Church.

The Church continues to teach that there is no salvation outside the Church, but it’s often misunderstood to mean that there is no salvation outside MEMBERSHIP in the Catholic Church. This is not true.

“There is no salvation outside the Church” recognizes that God imparts his saving grace through the Body of his Son, the Church. All who are saved are saved BY Jesus THROUGH His Body, the Church, whether one is a member or not, whether one believes it or not.

Hope that helps.

In Christ,
Nancy :slight_smile:


#17

[quote=Tanais]I would be careful with your wording of the “invisible church”. This lends itself to the heretical protestant view that there is not “visible church” but that the true “church” is all the true believers in Christ regardless of denomination, there in fact is no one church that Christ himself established.
[/quote]

I see your point. The article which I still have not found was talking about what many of the posters here have said. Invisible church means those who have a connection to the Catholic Church, but do not realize it.


#18

of course, our salvation comes thru J. but He left us, temporarily. in His stead, He built a church upon a rock, and so now He saves us thru His chruch. but as noted, we’d be foolish to try to put our limits on His mercy.

thanks for listening, love and peace, terry


#19

[quote=JimG]I agree. The Church is and was intended to be, and was established by Christ to be, visible.

Yet, not everyone realizes this because they have been taught the opposite. The Church is necessary for salvation. But just as God is not bound by the sacraments, his mercy reaches out to all. Salvation, whenever it is achieved, is through the graces of the Church, whether one knows it or not.

JimG
[/quote]

I thought we were saved by Gods grace. Salvation is a gift. It is not earned. So much for the cross at calvery. Where does it say in scripture that the church is necessary for salvation? :eek:


#20

yes, it is right—i also want to change my vote from no to yes


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