Is this the religion of tolerance that Jesus preached?


#1

Peace,
I came here through an advertisement of one of the Christians at the fourms of: whyislam.org . I can simply say that here, this forum smacks of hatred against Islam and Muslims. I doubt that those thread writers have the slightest knowledge about True Islam and its message to Mankind. I find it sometimes interestng and amusing that some members here tell a lie and start believing it and even debating it among themselves.

I sometimes wonder if this is the love-your-enemy religion that Jesus preached.
Are those fanatics the same followers who, supposedly, should turn the ‘other cheek’?
Is this the sinner-lover religion?

Because this is my first post, I am not going to debate anything for the moment. But Let me pose ONE question: What if the message of Islam was True?
Let me put it in another way:
Muslims believe in strict monotheism of God,
and that Mohammad [PBUH] was the Last of of Allah’s (God’s) Prophets,
Muslims believe in all Prophets of God and give them high esteem and status,
Muslims believe that The Quran is the literal word of God in Arabic an outstanding miracle to the day,
Muslims believe in all origional scriptures sent to all prophets of God [No, I am not going to go into this further in this thread],
That Jesus is the Messiah, one of the migtiest prophets of God, that he was born miraculously, that he was not crucified/didn’t die on the cross, and he IS NOT God, not one in trinity,
Muslims believe that Islam (Which is not a name; It means submission to God) came to correct what people misconceived and altered of the word of God and to confirm its pure form and finalize it.
What if the Quran is really the word of God, yet you disbelieve in it? (I wonder how many of you have undertook reading that book?)
What if you really mistook Jesus [PBUH] for God and ended up being a polytheist rather than the God worshipped by Abraham?
What if your interpretation of the divinity of Jesus were based on inherited misconception?

See you in a while
Peace


#2

And what if Islam is wrong, and Christianity right? You’re showing a misunderstanding of the Trinity…it is NOT, i repeat NOT three gods. It is ONE GOD in three persons. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all the one same God.


#3

[quote=Rand Al’Thor]And what if Islam is wrong, .
[/quote]

What could be wrong about Islam? It is Muslims who keep the commandments in practice not in theory,
It is Muslims who believe in pure Monotheism in Practice not in theory,
It is the only religion -other than Chrisitanity- that includes believe in Jesus as the messiah as a basic article of faith.
See? We have nothing much to gamble our life on (?)

[quote=Rand Al’Thor]and Christianity right? You’re showing a misunderstanding of the Trinity…it is NOT, i repeat NOT three gods. It is ONE GOD in three persons. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all the one same God
[/quote]

The topic of trinity is a matter of debate and conflict among Christians themselves since Christianity emerged. So don’t be so sure. I remember talking to a Unitarian Chrisitan who vehemently argued against Trinity. I won’t quote her points now for brevity.


#4

[quote=Sw0rdD]Peace,
I came here through an advertisement of one of the Christians at the fourms of: whyislam.org . I can simply say that here, this forum smacks of hatred against Islam and Muslims. I doubt that those thread writers have the slightest knowledge about True Islam and its message to Mankind. I find it sometimes interestng and amusing that some members here tell a lie and start believing it and even debating it among themselves.

I sometimes wonder if this is the love-your-enemy religion that Jesus preached.
Are those fanatics the same followers who, supposedly, should turn the ‘other cheek’?
Is this the sinner-lover religion?

Because this is my first post, I am not going to debate anything for the moment. But Let me pose ONE question: What if the message of Islam was True?
Let me put it in another way:
Muslims believe in strict monotheism of God,
and that Mohammad [PBUH] was the Last of of Allah’s (God’s) Prophets,
Muslims believe in all Prophets of God and give them high esteem and status,
Muslims believe that The Quran is the literal word of God in Arabic an outstanding miracle to the day,
Muslims believe in all origional scriptures sent to all prophets of God [No, I am not going to go into this further in this thread],
That Jesus is the Messiah, one of the migtiest prophets of God, that he was born miraculously, that he was not crucified/didn’t die on the cross, and he IS NOT God, not one in trinity,
Muslims believe that Islam (Which is not a name; It means submission to God) came to correct what people misconceived and altered of the word of God and to confirm its pure form and finalize it.
What if the Quran is really the word of God, yet you disbelieve in it? (I wonder how many of you have undertook reading that book?)
What if you really mistook Jesus [PBUH] for God and ended up being a polytheist rather than the God worshipped by Abraham?
What if your interpretation of the divinity of Jesus were based on inherited misconception?

See you in a while
Peace
[/quote]

Assalaam alaikum!

Umm… thanks for respecting the People of the Book. I have read some of the Qur’an after doing wudu whenever I can, and I’d rather follow the words of the Prophet Isa (PBUH) than that of the Qur’an. It seems to say that Pagans and other Christians and those of other religions may burn in Hell, whilst the blessed Imjeel preaches Allah as a God of love and compassion.

IF the Qur’an and the words of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) were true, I would still remain as a non-Trinitarian Christian who would be confused on what the Holy Spirit is because of the beautiful message of the Prophet Isa (PBUH).

Ever since the beginning, in the book of Genesis, God had promised us a Saviour who will fight against the Devil’s snares, born of another woman. Who else is this than the glorious Prophet Isa (PBUH). Allah is the God of Ibrahim, Is’hak, and ultimately, Isa (PBUT).

Wassalaam! :slight_smile:


#5

[quote=Sw0rdD]What could be wrong about Islam? It is Muslims who keep the commandments in practice not in theory,
It is Muslims who believe in pure Monotheism in Practice not in theory,
It is the only religion -other than Chrisitanity- that includes believe in Jesus as the messiah as a basic article of faith.
See? We have nothing much to gamble our life on (?)

The topic of trinity is a matter of debate and conflict among Christians themselves since Christianity emerged. So don’t be so sure. I remember talking to a Unitarian Chrisitan who vehemently argued against Trinity. I won’t quote her points now for brevity.

[/quote]

Islam came over 500 years after Christ and Muhammad was influenced my heretical Christian groups existing around Mecca at the time of his visions. The historical records show plainly what early Christians believed and record is open to all those who would only read it.

You come at us with the presupposition that Islam is the correct faith yet offer no evidence to show us why this is so.

What if Islam is false?

Why should Christians believe something that contradicts what was taught by Christ and those He chose to appoint as Apostles? Why should Christians accept the word of a man who lived 500 years after and thousands of miles away from the beginning of Christianity, when we have the actual records themselves?

I am sorry if people have been anti-Muslim of this board. That is wrong, but not all Christians are like this.

Peace


#6

[quote=Sw0rdD]…The topic of trinity is a matter of debate and conflict among Christians themselves since Christianity emerged. So don’t be so sure. I remember talking to a Unitarian Chrisitan who vehemently argued against Trinity. I won’t quote her points now for brevity.
[/quote]

The definition of a Christian requires acceptance of the Trinity, so while Unitarians may be good, God-fearing people, they are not in fact Christians even though some might call themselves such.

A parallel might be the case of a person who does not believe Mohamed was a prophet and does not believe the Qu’ran is inspired by God, but who still calls himself a Muslim. Would you consider such a person to be in fact a Muslim?


#7

what is “true islam”? Just one of thousands of imperfect and incomplete heresies cults etc that are of no use in reaching a true knowledge of God. why waste time unravelling the intricacies of something as worthless as that?


#8

[quote=new man]what is “true islam”? Just one of thousands of imperfect and incomplete heresies cults etc that are of no use in reaching a true knowledge of God. why waste time unravelling the intricacies of something as worthless as that?
[/quote]

While we Christians quite understandably do not value Islam in the same manner that Muslims do, I believe we can discuss each others faiths in a respectful manner without engaging in public floccinaucinihilipilification.


#9

How many of us, on this forum, have read the Holy Quran? Do we know where we agree? Maybe we could start exploring our similarities without pointing fingers at who has valid truth? I am ashamed at my own behavior, and small mind, for allowing my fears to rule. I’m going to try harder to understand and embrace my Muslim brothers and sisters.


It seems Mohammad (peace be upon him) was similar to many saints who had similar experiences in messages with our Blessed Mother (Lourdes, Fatima etc). There have been claims by many, that Jesus has come to them.


This is found in Chapter five of the Muslim Holy Quran. It sounds like a wonderful way for Christians to welcome those who seek to please God, above themselves, with open minds, hearts and arms.


Elizabeth
**"And nearest among them in love to the believers wilt thou find those who say, “We are Christians”: because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant. **

**And when they listen to the revelation received by the Messenger, thou wilt see their eyes overflowing with tears, for they recognise the truth: they pray: "Our Lord! we believe; write us down among the witnesses. **

**“What cause can we have not to believe in Allah and the truth which has come to us, seeing that we long for our Lord to admit us to the company of the righteous?” **

And for this their prayer hath Allah rewarded them with gardens, with rivers flowing underneath,- their eternal home. Such is the recompense of those who do good. "


#10

[quote=elizabeth4truth]How many of us, on this forum, have read the Holy Quran? Do we know where we agree? Maybe we could start exploring our similarities without pointing fingers at who has valid truth? I am ashamed at my own behavior, and small mind, for allowing my fears to rule. I’m going to try harder to understand and embrace my Muslim brothers and sisters.

It seems Mohammad (peace be upon him) was similar to many saints who had similar experiences in messages with our Blessed Mother (Lourdes, Fatima etc). There have been claims by many, that Jesus has come to them.

This is found in Chapter five of the Muslim Holy Quran. It sounds like a wonderful way for Christians to welcome those who seek to please God, above themselves, with open minds, hearts and arms.

Elizabeth
**"And nearest among them in love to the believers wilt thou find those who say, “We are Christians”: because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant. **

**And when they listen to the revelation received by the Messenger, thou wilt see their eyes overflowing with tears, for they recognise the truth: they pray: "Our Lord! we believe; write us down among the witnesses. **

**“What cause can we have not to believe in Allah and the truth which has come to us, seeing that we long for our Lord to admit us to the company of the righteous?” **

And for this their prayer hath Allah rewarded them with gardens, with rivers flowing underneath,- their eternal home. Such is the recompense of those who do good. "
[/quote]

Elizebeth,

You screen name proclaims you are for the truth, are there not differences in what is the Truth in Christianity and Islam?

It is not arrogant to proclaim the truth and stand against falsehood. Islam and Christianity contradict eachother on some major points. Is it not important defend Christian beliefs in the Trinity, Incarnation, and atonment Christ as against those who would attack it?

Well need to be understanding of those who seek the truth, but never at the expense of the Truth itself, never at the expense of Christ who is the Truth.

Peace


#11

Except that Muhammed’s is false. He has either lied about his vision or he has been deceived in some way.


**
This is found in Chapter five of the Muslim Holy Quran. It sounds like a wonderful way for Christians to welcome those who seek to please God, above themselves, with open minds, hearts and arms.
Elizabeth
**"And nearest among them in love to the believers wilt thou find those who say, “We are Christians”: because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant. **

**And when they listen to the revelation received by the Messenger, thou wilt see their eyes overflowing with tears, for they recognise the truth: they pray: "Our Lord! we believe; write us down among the witnesses. **

**“What cause can we have not to believe in Allah and the truth which has come to us, seeing that we long for our Lord to admit us to the company of the righteous?” **

And for this their prayer hath Allah rewarded them with gardens, with rivers flowing underneath,- their eternal home. Such is the recompense of those who do good. "
This passage says the good Christians will reject the divinity and savior-ship of Christ. Let’s call a wolf a wolf here. Islam seeks to take sheep from the good shepherd’s fold.**


#12

Except that Muhammed’s is false. He has either lied about his vision or he has been deceived in some way.

**
**This passage says the good Christians will reject the divinity and savior-ship of Christ. Let’s call a wolf a wolf here. Islam seeks to take sheep from the good shepherd’s fold.****:clapping: :clapping: :clapping: Call a spade a spade:whistle:


#13

[quote=Sw0rdD] I doubt that those thread writers have the slightest knowledge about True Islam and its message to Mankind. I find it sometimes interestng and amusing that some members here tell a lie and start believing it and even debating it among themselves.
[/quote]

All I need to know is that it’s message is to reject Christ as God and encourage people to not out their faith in Him. It also calls His ultimate sacrifice an illusion. Taking people away from Christ is a terrible message.

I sometimes wonder if this is the love-your-enemy religion that Jesus preached.
Are those fanatics the same followers who, supposedly, should turn the ‘other cheek’?
Is this the sinner-lover religion?

Loving the sinner does not mean tolerating his error. Christ ate with sinners in order to convert and heal them, not to condone their error.


#14

My Dear Brother in Christ,

Truly I say to you - May God Bless you and may His holy Blessed Mother pray for you to open your eyes. Ask and yea shall recieve. Seek and yea shall find.

God Bless,
Donna


#15

hello to all,

I am a new comparative study student and I wish I can learn something from this forum. First question is for the Christians. What is the best on-line Catholic Bible Translation? Can I use the KJV,NIV and RSV? For the Muslims, which translation of the Koran is the best? Thank you .

The TruthSeeker,

manx


#16

[quote=manx]hello to all,

I am a new comparative study student and I wish I can learn something from this forum. First question is for the Christians. What is the best on-line Catholic Bible Translation? Can I use the KJV,NIV and RSV? For the Muslims, which translation of the Koran is the best? Thank you .

The TruthSeeker,

manx
[/quote]

Not the King James,I have the New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition.Church Millitant uses a really good one I will ask him.The King James Version has seven books that were taken out during the Protestant Reformation.God Bless you and welcome,Lisa:)


#17

[quote=Lisa4Catholics]Not the King James,I have the New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition.Church Millitant uses a really good one I will ask him.The King James Version has seven books that were taken out during the Protestant Reformation.God Bless you and welcome,Lisa:)
[/quote]

hey lisa!

you have my sister’s name. hehe. Thanks for this reply. But I need something on-line because I am in place where different Bibles are hard to find. I am sorry to bother you on this one. God Bless dear.

manx


#18

mohammed is false.
islam is false.
the koran is false.

We do a greater injustice to our brothers and sisters by coddling them in their beliefs, then we do by telling them the Truth and trying to bring them to Christ. as Catholics we are called to evangelize and love. i dont think we should be hateful or rude or inhumane in anyway. but it is our duty to help bring our beautiful islamic brothers and sisters out of the darkness of islam and into the light of Christ.

God Bless,

Tara


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