Is toplessness sinfull

I have been wondering is it a sin for women to expose their breasts and/or a sin for me (as a guy) to look at them. I know in Europe women go topless and it is considered totally fine. However, in America it is not considered appropriate (for the most part). So I’m wondering since breasts have no sexual purpose (therefor not likely to temp men to sexual thoughts) they should not have to be covered. (same as a mans chest) Now you could argue that is does temp men, but why is that as breast have no sexual purpose?

should/ could we adopt the European train of thought?

sorry if my question is not so clear its kinda written by my train of thought

also sorry for sounding perverted.

Look, I’m not even talking in terms of ‘sin’ here. From my observation of the phenomenon of female toplessness, I think it stems from a diminished sense of feminine worth… either individually or culturally. The hippy mentality promotes toplessness as female freedom and power. What rubbish! We are not dumb animals. We have persona’s and mystique.

Tribal cultures who’ve erred on the side of male dominance laud toplessness to support the superiority of males.

Some males would be happy to see the world become a porn fest for their continual gratification! :mad:

True. But I see no shortage of women willing to undress in front of a camera, either.

Why they do it is beyond me.

Now, I realize bodies, male and female, were created by God and are good. However, keep in mind, we are** post** the Fall of Adam and Eve. Ever since that, nothing has been the same. We felt a need to wear clothing, especially before God.

I also see on your profile that you are Catholic. That being said, I’ll refer to the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a9.htm

Please scroll down to 2521-2533.

Further, catholicmodesty.com/
catholic.com/blog/michelle-arnold/the-blessed-virgins-guide-to-catholic-modesty

Anyway, I hope that clarifies the position any good, practicing Catholic needs to take.

well I feel since america held on to alot of puritanical aspects until recent times that breasts were veiwed as sinful somehow thus american men and men from the americas are more apt to stare and make remarks whenever a woman exposes her breasts and it depend on the situation
if its a nursing mother and your not looking at her with lust no its not sinful since you are admiring a woman nuturing her child
Ladies sunbathing topless if you are at a topless beach then it falls into gray area and goes by how your feeling about it personally
anything else I dont think I could find a situation where a normal woman would have her breasts exposed
anything else such as mardi gras or drunken girls showing off in bars is sinful since its being done for a sinful purpose }

but my opinion only

The Europe train of though is 'moral permissiveness. Just because people do it doesn’t make it right… Their behavior against the ninth commandment, means that they need to educate their conscience to what is right in God’s sight.

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church;

“2526 So called moral permissiveness rests on an erroneous conception of human freedom; the necessary precondition for the development of true freedom is to let oneself be educated in the moral law. Those in charge of education can reasonably be expected to give young people instruction respectful of the truth, the qualities of the heart, and the moral and spiritual dignity of man.”

2528 “Everyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart” (Mt 5:28). Whether it makes sense to some people or not, naked breasts do tend to insight men to lust, as do skimpy and revealing dress.

2522 Modesty protects the mystery of persons and their love. It encourages patience and moderation in loving relationships; it requires that the conditions for the definitive giving and commitment of man and woman to one another be fulfilled. Modesty is decency. It inspires one’s choice of clothing. It keeps silence or reserve where there is evident risk of unhealthy curiosity. It is discreet.

2523 There is a modesty of the feelings as well as of the body. It protests, for example, against the voyeuristic explorations of the human body in certain advertisements, or against the solicitations of certain media that go too far in the exhibition of intimate things. Modesty inspires a way of life which makes it possible to resist the allurements of fashion and the pressures of prevailing ideologies. "

As a man, I can assure you that breast are definitely capable of tempting men and instigating sexual thoughts.

Why this is so is essentially linked to the role of breasts in fertility, and therefore in choice of sexual partner (in Catholic terms, your spouse). Ample (for want of a better term) breasts indicate a likely food source for offspring, and it’s this basic biological function that makes them attractive.

Covering them up means that men are less prone to seeing women purely in a sexual context and thereby objectifying them. We are rational creatures and must make choices that rise above our basic biological urgings. Women have so much more value than merely their biological functions, despite what certain elements of modern culture would portray.

So, in answer to your question, “Is toplessness sinful?”

Yes.

So typical of north-americans to go the close-minded pervert approach on the subject. Boobies are not some kind of sin cannons shooting hellfire sin-rays at anyone looking :doh2: The more taboo you put on showing skin the more tempting and sexually loaded it will get.

Someone who is used to toplessness will not give in to lustfull thougths/fantasies at the mere sigth of someone suntanning… Get yourself together. Our lord made us naked in the beginning, why should it be such an astonishingly extreme source of shame? And don’t think of me as a nudist now… come on I am talking about the beach not being topless in the general store…

It is fun and rejuvenating, aswell as it is optional. And if you can’t handle it then by all means, hop into that jumpsuit of yours and stay away from the beaches, problem solved? :shrug:

Edit: I am assuming the OP is talking about the beachgoing holiday aspect of european toplessness. Because if you are talking about walking in the city exposed i have no clue what continent you are refering to as Europe :rolleyes:

Toplessness is conditionally sinful but not inherently sinful. Since breasts have become viewed as a sexual organ (even though technically they aren’t) it would not be okay to walk around topless. Technically speaking, nakedness in general - not just female breasts - is only conditionally sinful. The sin about nakedness is about perceived scandal and vulgarity, not because nakedness is in of itself an evil thing. As JPII the Great explained: pornography is not evil because it exposes too much. It is evil because it exposes too little.

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We are not wired the same as Europeans for starters. Our cultures are very different when it comes to things like this.

MOST men only go shirtless when at the beach. It would be a sin for men to go shirtless if their intention was to use their body as sexual bait.

Sexual crimes are a huge problem in the US, add this to the pile and it would be an inferno. Personally, I would think of it as a sin. Who would want their teenagers exposed to this kind of thing, particularly if you are trying to inspire them spiritually.

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=LongingSoul;11417123]Look, I’m not even talking in terms of ‘sin’ here. From my observation of the phenomenon of female toplessness, I think it stems from a diminished sense of feminine worth… either individually or culturally.

Acting out usually is.

The hippy mentality promotes toplessness as female freedom and power. What rubbish! We are not dumb animals. We have persona’s and mystique.

The hippie mentality thinks they can choose all kinds of non-traditional sexual lifestyles and there are no consequences, only choices.

Some savvy men see that as slutty, putting-out behaviour and a permission slip to use these women as practice for sex or to be exploited in other ways.

Tribal cultures who’ve erred on the side of male dominance laud toplessness to support the superiority of males.

And that would go right over Western feminist heads even with all that “education”.

Just look at what leading feminists in the EU have done in the rise of Islam in the Western EU. Pretty much laying down and doing nothing. One Norweigan feminist even said that women should “dress nicer” to accommodate changing cultural norms due to demographics.

Some males would be happy to see the world become a porn fest for their continual gratification! :mad:

Rape is sometimes considered a weapon in war. When you think about it like that as opposed to a liberal “choice”, the outlook is very different.

You’ve given me some perspective on this, as well. :thumbsup:

Rotcguy:
“So I’m wondering since breasts have no sexual purpose (therefor not likely to temp men to sexual thoughts)”

Riiiight. No sexual thoughts whatsoever. :rolleyes:

Just make sure you cue in the immigrants to Sweden on that.

I assure you, they are not getting the message.

Well, it’s not perverted, and people need to people to discuss sexual things and other bizarre topics on here because these are key moral issues. :thumbsup:

I can’t speak to the morality of this, but here are some things to consider.

Some tribes in the equatorial Third World have women with breast exposed. But that’s a more weather related situation than a lustful one. Should they have to wear clothes even it means dying of heat exhaustion?

A Muslim man and I were discussing how women in the West dress. I tell them the first consideration is** usually the weather** since it tends to change. Sure, there’s always the girl who will wear low-cut shirts to show off more cleveage, and people notice. A priest once told that me that if you’re a woman and you’re going to Communion with everything ready to fall out, don’t think that isn’t noticed and not discussed.

In Europe, women do go topless** at the beaches**. That’s culturally acceptable, but not so much so in the USA. The problem I have in Western Europe on these issues has more to do with their rosy-colored idealist view of the world in terms of their immigration policy and migrants coming there and seeing this kind of stuff, experiencing culture shock which frankly has driven up crime. A lot of tourists and immigrants sometimes see this kind of culture as a motive to sexually assault women. That’s where the biggest problem comes in for me.

I mean, if you talk to some of the more conservative elements there, they don’t have an ounce of respect for these women. Some men will even exploit them and use them for practice dating and sex all the while with the intention of marrying someone from their own religion, race and/or culture.

It’s a pretty charged topic, but one I won’t shy away from, and it does pertain to what you are asking about.

It’s not exactly the intention of the women to tempt men when women go swimming or try and survive the tropical heat in say the same sense that pornography is. If it is, then the conversation about morality changes because** sin depends largely on intention,** but be careful here, because as Senior Apologist Jimmy Akin wrote that you don’t exactly have been relishing the idea of mortal sin to commit one.

Ultimately, I always defer these kinds of questions to priests, spiritual directors and apologists because again, I don’t have the moral authority on this. Because this is so prevalent today, most moralists have techniques for mental discipline that a person can use to tell when its and when its not a sin.

Not in the shower, no. There is an element of the demonic in public nudity.

Toplessness is not universally accepted in Europe. Lots of women do expose their breasts at the beach, and at the same time lots of other people feel offended by that, and they are scrambling to find more family-friendly sections of the beach, with no topless women. This is especially true of families visiting the beach - parents are trying to protect their children by avoiding the topless women and the nudists on the beach.

This is similar to the case of women going to church in the USA, with half of their breasts hanging out. Other parishioners typically won’t confront these women, but that doesn’t mean they aren’t offended, or trying to sit elsewhere as possible in the church, in order to protect their children and themselves from the unholy sight of immodestly dressed women.

I think you need to check your assumptions. Any feature on a female that is not present in a male may serve to arouse a normal male. This is simple evolutionary biology. You might argue that breast are simply arousing because of a social construct. But do you really think that in any hypothetical society that men would be more aroused by a woman’s teeth than by her breasts?

I am puzzled. :hmmm:

I assume you mean the muslim immigrants? How do they qualify as a part of the topic concerning Catholic opinion on european toplessness? And also as far as Im aware they are already in jumpsuits and away from beaches (cued in much?) so what is your point?

Not real clear what you are asking…US society to adopt European attitudes about nudity?
Women to keep shirts on because it tempts men? but if I do understand.

In a nutshell…we are personally responsible for our thoughts and behaviors so it may not be a sin to look at a body, It’s all about contex, clothed or unclothed …if looking at a person with lustful ideas we are sinning.

If someone is acting in such a way that might cause sin …using the OP context of women as temptress…vampish, etc they may or may not be sinning, doesn’t matter…My priority is me and my thoughts and deeds. It’s up to me to remove myself from temptation, not to try and force temptation to change for me.

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