Is Traditional Catholicism A Goal?


#1

While I respect the choice of Catholics to express their Catholicism in the EP (old mass format), I fear an increasing conservativism hiding under the mantle of orthodoxy (as if conservative Catholicism has the monopoly on orthodoxy) will suffocate the work of the Holy Spirit in the church.

The “closed mindedness” and at time blatant ignorance I have seen posted over a long period of time against anything post-Vatican II and/or seeing the deposit of faith in new lights informed by human (socio-cultural experiential knowledge) is indeed a dangerous sign! The thread on the Vatican’s harrassment of US Women Religious Congregations recently is a good example of that right wing meaness in the church refering to these wonderful women as “rennigade nuns”…etc.

It is a conservative spirit that promotes unkindness and anti-christian viewpoints and values in the name of “orthodox catholicism”; a conservative spirit that could suffocate the “fresh air” and openenss invited by John XXIII in the early 60’s. This movement towards conservative and narrow rhetoric in our church is dangerous and I would hope the monitors in Catholic Answers exercise their judgement in a balanced viewpoint with equal management of extreme conservative comments that do not reflect the teachings of this church.

So while I support the latin mass and/or traditional catholicism (and what Catholic is not in love with Gregorian Chant and the intimacy of Eucharistic Adoration?) and I support traditional catholicism within the context of a post-Vatican II world, I am hoping that our church remains centrist taking the best of who we have been for 1500 years as well as how much we have grown in the past 40-50 years as an inclusive and loving church emphasising our forgiveness and longing for unity of all humanity.

Trickster


#2

[quote="trickster, post:1, topic:283067"]
While I respect the choice of Catholics to express their Catholicism in the EP (old mass format), I fear an increasing conservativism hiding under the mantle of orthodoxy (as if conservative Catholicism has the monopoly on orthodoxy) will suffocate the work of the Holy Spirit in the church.

[/quote]

Do not fear. The Holy Spirit cannot be suffocated.

If the "Spirit of Vatican II" is the work of the Holy Spirit, it cannot be destroyed.

On, the other hand, if it is not the work of the Holy Spirit, it will be destroyed.


#3

Are you basically claiming that we Catholics are not to be conservatives? Conservatism = narrow-mindedness? This sounds something like bigotry.

Thanks, but I'll maintain my own political views and avoid getting beguiled by the left.


#4

Trickster,

Have you bothered to research why the Vatican censured LCWR? Did you know that some of the nuns have been espousing teachings that are contrary to the Faith? For example, some of the nuns have proposed ordaining women priests; other nuns have openly supported homosexual marriages or civil unions; and still others have shown outright disdain for Catholic magisterial teachings regarding contraception.

Before you call members of the Church mean, please do your research.

Lastly, there is no middle ground with regard to Christ's teachings as inspired by the Holy Spirit. Where exactly would you want the Church to compromise its beliefs?


#5

I would not equate traditional practice with conservative views.


#6

In my humble opinion:

The Vatican is most certainly not "bullying the nuns. There is great evidence that these sisters have been far from obedient to the magisterium, the teaching of the Church. If I'm not mistaken these nuns an in open rebellion from their vows of obedience.

The Church is trying to correct some of the the disasters of the 60's and 70's that resulted in widespread misunderstanding of the faith.

Its not about inclusiveness, its about saving souls!


#7

[quote="trickster, post:1, topic:283067"]
While I respect the choice of Catholics to express their Catholicism in the EP (old mass format), I fear an increasing conservativism hiding under the mantle of orthodoxy (as if conservative Catholicism has the monopoly on orthodoxy) will suffocate the work of the Holy Spirit in the church.

The "closed mindedness" and at time blatant ignorance I have seen posted over a long period of time against anything post-Vatican II and/or seeing the deposit of faith in new lights informed by human (socio-cultural experiential knowledge) is indeed a dangerous sign! The thread on the Vatican's harrassment of US Women Religious Congregations recently is a good example of that right wing meaness in the church refering to these wonderful women as "rennigade nuns"....etc.

It is a conservative spirit that promotes unkindness and anti-christian viewpoints and values in the name of "orthodox catholicism"; a conservative spirit that could suffocate the "fresh air" and openenss invited by John XXIII in the early 60's. This movement towards conservative and narrow rhetoric in our church is dangerous and I would hope the monitors in Catholic Answers exercise their judgement in a balanced viewpoint with equal management of extreme conservative comments that do not reflect the teachings of this church.

So while I support the latin mass and/or traditional catholicism (and what Catholic is not in love with Gregorian Chant and the intimacy of Eucharistic Adoration?) and I support traditional catholicism within the context of a post-Vatican II world, I am hoping that our church remains centrist taking the best of who we have been for 1500 years as well as how much we have grown in the past 40-50 years as an inclusive and loving church emphasising our forgiveness and longing for unity of all humanity.

Trickster

[/quote]

To answer the question in the title, I hope not.

The goal is to reach the Father by following the Son, guided by the Holy Spirit. To limit the work of the Holy Spirit to a movement in the Church is an attempt to handcuff God.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV :)


#8

[quote="trickster, post:1, topic:283067"]
While I respect the choice of Catholics to express their Catholicism in the EP (old mass format), I fear an increasing conservativism hiding under the mantle of orthodoxy (as if conservative Catholicism has the monopoly on orthodoxy) will suffocate the work of the Holy Spirit in the church.

The "closed mindedness" and at time blatant ignorance I have seen posted over a long period of time against anything post-Vatican II and/or seeing the deposit of faith in new lights informed by human (socio-cultural experiential knowledge) is indeed a dangerous sign! The thread on the Vatican's harrassment of US Women Religious Congregations recently is a good example of that right wing meaness in the church refering to these wonderful women as "rennigade nuns"....etc.

It is a conservative spirit that promotes unkindness and anti-christian viewpoints and values in the name of "orthodox catholicism"; a conservative spirit that could suffocate the "fresh air" and openenss invited by John XXIII in the early 60's. This movement towards conservative and narrow rhetoric in our church is dangerous and I would hope the monitors in Catholic Answers exercise their judgement in a balanced viewpoint with equal management of extreme conservative comments that do not reflect the teachings of this church.

So while I support the latin mass and/or traditional catholicism (and what Catholic is not in love with Gregorian Chant and the intimacy of Eucharistic Adoration?) and I support traditional catholicism within the context of a post-Vatican II world, I am hoping that our church remains centrist taking the best of who we have been for 1500 years as well as how much we have grown in the past 40-50 years as an inclusive and loving church emphasising our forgiveness and longing for unity of all humanity.

Trickster

[/quote]

Unity according to whom? According to then Church and her doctrines or unity according to societies maxims? I must say your views confuse me since it looks like you praise tradition as long as it isn't practiced.


#9

Besides this, Catholics and Catholicism is neither inherently liberal nor inherently conservative. We would often be viewed as conservative in morals, as we should be; God doesn’t change, and neither does what is right. However Catholics might have progressive or liberal ideas on other things, such as it’s support of labour unions and worker’s rights, and favouring less strict immigration laws. One shouldn’t view conservatism as evil and liberalism as good; nor should one view it as being the other way around. Both have their strengths and weaknesses, and we should look to our judgement and our faith when deciding such matters.


#10

I can already see where this thread is going. What is the point of starting a thread in the traditional Catholic forum attacking traditional Catholics? Is this right?

[quote="trickster, post:1, topic:283067"]

The "closed mindedness" and at time blatant ignorance I have seen posted over a long period of time against anything post-Vatican II and/or seeing the deposit of faith in new lights informed by human (socio-cultural experiential knowledge) is indeed a dangerous sign! The thread on the Vatican's harrassment of US Women Religious Congregations recently is a good example of that right wing meaness in the church refering to these wonderful women as "rennigade nuns"....etc.

[/quote]

What concerns me more is the outright heterodoxy I have seen posted on a Catholic forum.


#11

You hear that everyone? If you are conservative you are a closed minded "ignorant" person according to Bruce.


#12

Trickster is just up to his usual tricks. There's no point in answering posts that are only an attempt to stir people up.


#13

[quote="trickster, post:1, topic:283067"]
While I respect the choice of Catholics to express their Catholicism in the EP (old mass format), I fear an increasing conservativism hiding under the mantle of orthodoxy (as if conservative Catholicism has the monopoly on orthodoxy) will suffocate the work of the Holy Spirit in the church.

The "closed mindedness" and at time blatant ignorance I have seen posted over a long period of time against anything post-Vatican II and/or seeing the deposit of faith in new lights informed by human (socio-cultural experiential knowledge) is indeed a dangerous sign! The thread on the Vatican's harrassment of US Women Religious Congregations recently is a good example of that right wing meaness in the church refering to these wonderful women as "rennigade nuns"....etc.

It is a conservative spirit that promotes unkindness and anti-christian viewpoints and values in the name of "orthodox catholicism"; a conservative spirit that could suffocate the "fresh air" and openenss invited by John XXIII in the early 60's. This movement towards conservative and narrow rhetoric in our church is dangerous and I would hope the monitors in Catholic Answers exercise their judgement in a balanced viewpoint with equal management of extreme conservative comments that do not reflect the teachings of this church.

So while I support the latin mass and/or traditional catholicism (and what Catholic is not in love with Gregorian Chant and the intimacy of Eucharistic Adoration?) and I support traditional catholicism within the context of a post-Vatican II world, I am hoping that our church remains centrist taking the best of who we have been for 1500 years as well as how much we have grown in the past 40-50 years as an inclusive and loving church emphasising our forgiveness and longing for unity of all humanity.

Trickster

[/quote]

:confused::confused::confused::eek:


#14

Dear Trickster,

Whenever I see your screen name, I’m reminded of a wonderful Navajo woman, I used to know. She told me many a story about Coyote, the trickster. The trickster is rarely good, mostly bad.

I think, as agnes therese said—you’re being bad!


#15

[quote="asia53, post:14, topic:283067"]
Dear Trickster,

Whenever I see your screen name, I'm reminded of a wonderful Navajo woman, I used to know. She told me many a story about Coyote, the trickster. The trickster is rarely good, mostly bad.

I think, as agnes therese said---you're being bad!

[/quote]

Yes but we must praise Divine Providnece since Bruce was inspiried to picked a name which would alert practicing Catholics of danger. ;)


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