Is Windows morally acceptable?


#21

The only way to be absolutely sure that you are not putting money into the pockets of anti-Christians is to become a Luddite (eschew all advanced machines), hide in the woods so you don’t have to pay taxes, and grow your own food from seeds you find.

That said, I avoid spending money on products where the corporation itself (Levi’s comes to mind) donates to bad causes (Planned Parenthood).

I can’t avoid Windows because I just don’t have the time or inclination to install and learn a new operating system, and I have no idea how to port ALL of my necessary programs to a new system, and I have thousands of dollars (and thousands of learning hours) tied up in those programs. So it goes.


#22

[quote=rfk]Can you prove this? Cite a single, reputable, published source.

It is easy … to sling charges around. … people … accept that your charge is factual. Is it?
[/quote]

[quote=roemer]The Microsoft /Bill Gates/ Planned Parenthood connection is common knowledge. A 10 second web search will bear that out.
[/quote]

Not a convincing rebuttal.:nope: Don’t get me wrong, it may very well be true that Bill Gates has supported Planned Parenthood, I have no idea. And if he was, I don’t approve. However, you were challenged to document your assertion.


#23

[quote=rfk]Not a convincing rebuttal.:nope: Don’t get me wrong, it may very well be true that Bill Gates has supported Planned Parenthood, I have no idea. And if he was, I don’t approve. However, you were challenged to document your assertion.
[/quote]

From Focus on the Family

Microsoft magnate Bill Gates has given the largest gift ever to the International Planned Parenthood Federation (IPPF)-nearly $9 million to the pro-abortion group.

The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation boasts a $21 billion endowment, distributing grants in excess of $2 billion annually. And every year, the amount the foundation donates to the London-based IPPF grows. Gates gave $1.7 million in 1998, $3 million in 1999 and now, in 2000, $8.8 million. The latest grant will be spread over five years.

“International Planned Parenthood Federation is an especially controversial organization because they are deeply involved in China’s one-child [per family] policy,” said Wendy Wright of Concerned Women for America. “They not only help direct it, they help fund it, and their hands are everywhere in it.”

Edward Szymkowiak of the American Life League said the contribution is further complicated by the fact that tens of millions of people use software and peripherals manufactured by Gates’ Microsoft Corp.

“A lot of us use Bill Gates’ products, so I suppose you could make the argument that we’re giving Bill Gates money to use his products, and Bill Gates is using that money to fund Planned Parenthood,” Szymkowiak said.

Christian computing experts say that to Gates’ credit, Microsoft makes software available to churches and other nonprofit groups at a steep discount. Yet more than $87 million of Gates Foundation money goes to population-control groups around the world.

“That’s a sad fact of life in a culture of death,” Szymkowiak said.

Stuart Shepard, Family News in Focus


#24

[quote=roemer]Linux is free; Linus Torvalds does not get any royalties from any distributors of Linux. He has granted a permanent public license that does not allow anyone else to patent or copywrite Linux. I am under the impression he makes a very comfortable living consulting, but again, he gets no Linux royalties.
[/quote]

But Linus is the central maintainer. And while Linux may be free, we know that he does have quite a bit of sway in how the kernel is built. I would think that if we’re worrying about what the heads of software industries support, Linus’ opinion would be equally as important as Bill Gates’.

The Microsoft /Bill Gates/ Planned Parenthood connection is common knowledge. A 10 second web search will bear that out.

Yet you have not been able to post a single link. If it’s truly
"Common knowledge" then how come you seem to be the only one who’s mentioned it.

One of the points of this thread is that everyone’s hands are a little dirty; we all get material comfort from evil in this society.

Most people will say, “well, duh!” but having a firm grasp of the obvious is no disadvantage

“Then Ilúvatar spoke, and he said: ‘Mighty are the Ainur, and mightiest among them is Melkor; but that he may know, and all the Ainur, that I am Ilúvatar, those things that ye have sung, I will show them forth, that ye may see what ye have done. And thou, Melkor, shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me, nor can any alter the music in my despite. For he that attempteth this shall prove but mine instrument in the devising of things more wonderful, which he himself hath not imagined.’”

How wonderful it is that God can take even something that is evil, and bring about good.


#25

I’m not obligated to prove what is commonly known to those who don’t know it. Moreover, when an assertion is made, especially about what is common knowledge, the one making it isn’t obliged to prove the assertion, the person challenging it is obliged to support his challenge.
If someone lacks knowlege and is unwilling to do the minimal to smarten up, well, that person is not worth engaging in discourse.
A great priest once told me: Sins can be forgiven, ignorance can be remediated, but stupid is permanent.

As regards the comparison between Torvalds and Gates, of course Torvalds controls the kernel; I think he even still writes code himself. The point is, if you buy Microsft products, you are supporting a pro abortion individual and company. Not so with Linux and OpenOffice.

Another point is that the development of open source is a more Christian methodology than the corporate development model.


#26

I am also considering not using Microsoft products because of concerns about his donations to pro-abortion and “family planning” organizations.

However, GNU/Linux is also a problem. Have you ever seen Richard Stallman’s disrespectful (blasphemous) writings and pictures?

Check out www.stallman.org

stallman.org/saintignucius.jpg
stallman.org/saint.html

Richard Stallman is the founder of GNUand FSF and initiated and wrote much of gcc.

Are you aware that the standard GNU/Linux command shell called “bash” stands for “Bourne Again Shell” !!?? There was a UNIX commad shell called the Bourne Shell and then GNU made this new command shell and calls it the “Bourne Again Shell”.

How many Catholic organizations that use Linux relaize this?

Now I don’t know what to do. I do have an idea.

I am a Catholic software engineer and I am thinking of starting a new OS that can be used for our Church and the world. I have written two OS kernels in my career for embedded systems.

Any thoughts? Do people support this? I have a company called Nanothread, LLC I will set up a web are for the Catholic OS project. I would be very excited about this. This could be the beginning of something big!!

Greg McPherran


#27

It seems clear that this is another case of “remote material cooperation.” If you use Windows BECAUSE Bill Gates gives money to bad causes, then it is NOT morally acceptable, but otherwise it is. You might be moved by the Spirit to engage in a boycott against Windows or other product, but it is not morally required that you do so.


#28

Yes, that’s my point. We move beyond moral obligations to building the kingdom of love and life. It is time for Catholics to take a stand. The law of love requires that we fight against the evil of Satan that harms our fellow humans. It’s time for Catholics to get fired up! We are freezing embryos in Nitrogen! We are murdering unborn children! We are using unborn humans for their cells! I would put a great pressure on organizations that support these activities! The way to do that is show them that we are no longer passive about these things. The murder of just one, just one, unborn child is a tragedy beyond belief. It’s time we overturned the tables of the money changers. It’s time to stop giving money to the irresponsible who use it to kill rather than promote the culture of life. We have power from God! We have the power! We have to stop feeling defeated all the time and rise up! The apostles had power and no fear and we are apostolic! Let us not be afraid to claim our power in the name of Jesus! “Anyone who loses his life for my sake will find it.” Let us pray to live up to what Jesus means by this.


#29

On this same note, should be stop buying Heinz ketchup because some of that money could end up with Teresa HEINZ Kerry and her husband’s pro-choice campaign? (She is a major shareholder, is she not?)


#30

Well one has to be aware of what other ketchup companies are doing also. I think in general, we Catholics can help by buying from Catholic suppliers, e.g. Jelly, bread, printer ink from monks, etc. Ketchup doesn’t bother me as much since it seems more remote. I buy a lot of software and I am a software engineer. Being involved in writing a new operating system is something that can have a major impact for good.

Microsoft is a more important case because Bill Gates is wielding billions of dollars and is actively involved in “global health”. Granted, his charities are apparently helping many in need and I praise him and his wife if they are legitimately concerned. However, there is much ignorance about the sacredness of human life and sexuality and money seems to be going to poulation control activities including abortion.


#31

do you all remember an ‘old’ saying something like
"it all depends upon whose ox is being gored.’


#32

[quote=annejohno]do you all remember an ‘old’ saying something like
"it all depends upon whose ox is being gored.’
[/quote]

Not sure I follow.


#33

Hello otm,

[quote=otm]This is a moral question that has been around much longer than Bill, and the net result is that you are not directly, and hardly indirectly, supporting his choices.

You are not, however, required to boycott Bill’s company’s products.
[/quote]

I think this may be related to voting for Senator Kerry. Even though people may not vote for Senator Kerry ***because ***he supports legal abortion, it still is considered wrong to vote for him (by the Voter’s guide standards). Similarly, buying MS software products instead of considering alternatives, continues to grow and perpetuate the business whose funds can end up in the Gates foundation and support organizations that support abortion (even if we don’t buy the products in order to support abortion). It is fairly clear that population control, including abortion, abortifactients, sterilization and contraception are part of the ongoing practice of the foundation. Just visit the website. Buy continuing to support this business we are also not showing our objection to the funding of organizations that support abortion and this in turn is encouraging or at least not discouraging the Gates foundation from funding abortion and other immoral practices. We are failing to at least send a message that abortion is not acceptable and I think we have a moral obligation to send that message in defense of the unborn. We cannot look the other way.

Other Catholic/pro-life organizations have called for boycott and I think the weight leans more towards finding software alternatives. The funding is too massive and focused to be ignored or considered too integrarted into the fabric of society, etc. I think Windows XP is the best-functioning desktop OS for PCs but we still need to take a stand.

Further thoughts on this?

Greg


#34

Catholic OS! I’m game. Just graduated from college with B.S. in CSCI/MATH. I have a full time job, but could spend some of my spare time on it. Quite an undertaking…though, I must say, I like the idea.


#35

I’d be willing to do what I can to help make a Catholic OS. I’m more of an systems administrator than a systems developer, but I’m sure I could be of some use. I’ve used Microsoft products for a while, and would love to have an alternative.


#36

[quote=The Barrister]From Focus on the Family

Microsoft magnate Bill Gates has given the largest gift ever to the International Planned Parenthood Federation (IPPF)-nearly $9 million to the pro-abortion group.

The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation boasts a $21 billion endowment, distributing grants in excess of $2 billion annually. And every year, the amount the foundation donates to the London-based IPPF grows. Gates gave $1.7 million in 1998, $3 million in 1999 and now, in 2000, $8.8 million. The latest grant will be spread over five years.

“International Planned Parenthood Federation is an especially controversial organization because they are deeply involved in China’s one-child [per family] policy,” said Wendy Wright of Concerned Women for America. “They not only help direct it, they help fund it, and their hands are everywhere in it.”

Edward Szymkowiak of the American Life League said the contribution is further complicated by the fact that tens of millions of people use software and peripherals manufactured by Gates’ Microsoft Corp.

“A lot of us use Bill Gates’ products, so I suppose you could make the argument that we’re giving Bill Gates money to use his products, and Bill Gates is using that money to fund Planned Parenthood,” Szymkowiak said.

Christian computing experts say that to Gates’ credit, Microsoft makes software available to churches and other nonprofit groups at a steep discount. Yet more than $87 million of Gates Foundation money goes to population-control groups around the world.

“That’s a sad fact of life in a culture of death,” Szymkowiak said.

Stuart Shepard, Family News in Focus
[/quote]

The Bill and Melinda Gates foundation was headed by Bill Gates Sr. (THE Bill’s father) Bill Sr. is a noted beliver in population control.

Melinda Gates, however is a practicing Catholic. In late 2002, she overrode her Father in Law’s grant choices and has taken a more active role in ensuring the morality of the Grants.

In addition, as a technical point, the B&M Gates Foundation’s endowment came from the sale of Microsoft stock into a diversified Trust. As the stock involved has already been sold, there is no finacial relationship between Microsoft as a corporation and the Gates Foundation. A rise in the stock price of MSFT stock provides no financial benefit to the Gates Foundation

The remaining moral issue with Microsoft as a corporation is that it offers health care benfits to same sex partners. This would be a hard one to avoid, as all the major Linux distros, plus IBM, HP and Apple do the same.

Apple and the Linux distros also have the problem in that their political donations tend to heavily favor pro-choice canidates. This has not been the case with Microsoft since Janet Reno :wink:


#37

I think this may be related to voting for Senator Kerry. Even though people may not vote for Senator Kerry because he supports legal abortion, it still is considered wrong to vote for him (by the Voter’s guide standards). Similarly, buying MS software products instead of considering alternatives, continues to grow and perpetuate the business whose funds can end up in the Gates foundation and support organizations that support abortion (even if we don’t buy the products in order to support abortion). It is fairly clear that population control, including abortion, abortifactients, sterilization and contraception are part of the ongoing practice of the foundation.

Great point Greg,

My situation is a bit more complicated since I am required by my employer (I teach at an online university) to have Windows and the MS suite of programs. At most, this would be remote material cooperation for proportionate reasons. :slight_smile:

Even more remote since supporting MS is related but not morally equivalent to supporting the Gates foundation.

I would, however, support any efforts regarding a Catholic OS even if it meant having two computers - one for work with the required MS and one for everything else.

Cool idea.


#38

I would like to add that those who think Linux is a morally acceptable alternative are misguided.

Read this thread for that…

forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=13640

There you will see that the founder of GNU and FSF as well as the person who wrote much of gcc and the bash shell is Richard Stallman who is also a strong support of abortion among other things.


#39

BTW,

If anyone is interested in the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation’s grants for 2004, here is a link

gatesfoundation.org/Grants/


#40

When I use gcc, bash, or other GNU software, Richard Stallman (RMS) normally doesn’t profit from it since I didn’t actually pay anything for it most of the time. The FSF doesn’t support abortion, although some of its members might. The FSF promotes free software and opposes unjust laws (DMCA, for example). Their work with patent laws is especially noble and is more consistent with Catholic social teaching than current software patent laws (but that’s a topic for another thread). Software patents are scarry.

At any rate, I would have a hard time living in this world if I only bought products made and sold by people who are pro-life. I recently purchased a new car. I doubt the manufacturer gives money to Planned Parenthood or lobbies for more abortions, but I can be reasonably certain that someone who was involved in designing, making, or selling the car has done something to promote abortion.

By the way, Linux itself isn’t affliated with the FSF. Linux is the kernel to an Operating System. The FSF started out with the intent of producing an OS called GNU. The FSF wrote all the utilities necessary for an OS, but didn’t have a workable kernel until recently (and that kernel is called Hurd).

Linus Torvalds wrote a kernel now called Linux. Eventually, all the GNU utilities were combined with the Linux kernel and became GNU/Linux (which everyone just calls Linux). The Linux kernel is maintained by Torvalds, not RMS or the FSF.


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