In response to questions asked on the trinity thread:
I have been told that Isaiah 9:6 “clearly” is a reference to Jesus. I disagree.
The original Hebrew of this text is in the past tense. Christians read it as being future tense.So the Christian interpertation becomes “For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; and the government will rest on his shoulders, and his name will be called Wonderful counsler, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.”
It is a mistake to believe that the Hebrew words for “Mighty God” and “Everlasting Father” can only be applied to a divine being.
As Jews for Judaism points out, it is quite common in the Tanach for human beings to be given names that reflect a particular attribute of GOd. (see, Eliab, Elzaphan, Eliakim, Elisha, Eleazar, Tavel, Gedaliah.). Psalm 82:6 “I said you are gods; you are all sons of the Most High.” “gods” here is Elohim, which can also mean judges, princes, rulers, big muckity mucks. Elohim is the plural of “El” which is the same word used for “god” in Isaiah 9:6. The use of the term doesn’t make the person God.
Who and what else is referred to as “god” in the Tanach?
Jerusalem: Jer. 33:16 calls Jerusalem "The Lord our Righteousness"
Ezekiel means “Strong God”, or "Hashem (God) is Strong God"
Elijah is shorthand for “Eli Yahweh” (I hate writing “Yahweh”). Eli means “God” and we know what Yahweh means.
Gabriel means Strong God
Isaiah can mean "Salvation"
Joshua = "God Saves+
Eli means God. It was a common name for men (before and after Jesus).
Then there is the issue of what Jesus did or didn’t do. We don’t see Jesus as being a Wonderful Counsler. Advising one that if they have faith they can be agents of destruction is not advice from a wonderful counsler. A mighty God does not take orders from anyone, since no one is greater than God. He cannot die by any means. One cannot be called the Son of God and simultaneously be called the “Everlasting Father”. And encouraging family strife and killing of enemies (Luke 19:27) runs contrary to the “ruler of peace”.
Those are some reasons why we don’t believe Isaiah has anything to do with Jesus. So what does it have to do with?
Tune in tomorrow… (or post your own answer).