Islam...a big scam?


#1

This anyone else feel that millions have been duped into following the fantaticism of Islam? Especially since it’s teachings have The Son of God demoted to prophet status. Additionally, some of it’s teaching promote incredible discord and violence. Could this false religion be a plant by the evil one?

I am trying to be charitable but events in the Middle East over my life time, espeically since 911, make me wonder about this question.

May His peace be with you…


#2

[quote=BenRosa]This anyone else feel that millions have been duped into following the fantaticism of Islam? Especially since it’s teachings have The Son of God demoted to prophet status. Additionally, some of it’s teaching promote incredible discord and violence. Could this false religion be a plant by the evil one?

I am trying to be charitable but events in the Middle East over my life time, espeically since 911, make me wonder about this question.

May His peace be with you…
[/quote]

This religion is evil, have a look at the description in Father Gobbi’s book.


#3

Absolutely!
Any faith that diminished the God nature of Jesus is false and of Satan. Islam, Hinduism, New Age, Mormanism, Secularism, you name it, are Satan’s deception from the real God and mankind’s requirement for redemption.

The media and Socialist organizations such as are heavily invested in their real goal of eliminating Christianity. Especially in the USA. It is all about personal power and greed for leaders in these orgainzations.

However, for us Christians we take heart that “greater is he that is in me that he that is in the world”. Keep up the courage and prayer.


#4

I would have to say “Yes, it is a big scam”. Christ has already died for ours sins and given us the gift of Salvation and shown us the way which leads to eternal Life. Mohammed comes along approx. 600 years later with a new “revelation” (with many “revelations” to follow throughout his lifetime whenever he needed to clarify a point or change a position to fit his personal whims). One only needs to look at how Christ’s divinity is denied and the often brutal ways in which Islam was spread and instituted, - and no believing Christian can think this comes from God. In fact, the use of certain Bibilical characters (Angel messagers) and relative adherence to the Torah and bits and pieces of the New Testament just shows how Satan is the Ape of God. He mimics God’s plans with certains truths while all along leading people into a collective denial of the One true way of Salvation (through Jesus Christ). Satan has already lost the War, - he is simply trying to win a few battles along the way (and unfortunately try and take a few more Billions souls with him).

I pray for mass conversion in the Islamic World !!


#5

I’m with you. I get a n/l from a group with tent-makers (Christians but not missionaries) in the Middle East. The leader says – the chains of Islam are heavy. Shame is a huge part of it, but because you cannot redeem yourself by confession, apologies, you just have to pass it on to a scapegoat as fast as you can (to the Jews, Americans). There is no redemption in that religion, and no way to ever right yourself with God. This is why some of the suicide bombers in Israel are women – if they are pregnant or have had an affair, they are forced to do that by their families to redeem their (collective) shame. Plus, their god is not a personal god who can be known, only an impersonal and severe god. The teaching is that ‘the world should submit’ to Islam, hence the ‘outreach’ they are currently doing. I heard a series of talks by a Christian pastor here who grew up in Old Jerusalem/ Amman. He quoted the Koran and told about the Real Islam. He did NOT consider it ‘a religion of peace.’


#6

I respectfully disagree… and thank heavens for your attempt at charity… i suggest a thorough reading on the Islam faith, and don’t let a few radicals mold your perception… Like Islam, christianity has it’s finatics, and both groups have been guilty of some pretty rotten crimes down through history… i just believe that we need to look less for the splinter in their eye…

keep a sharp eye on our timber however… :thumbsup:


#7

Yeah, I’d have to agree. Essentially, I see no difference between Islam and Mormonism. They just seem like major cults. The founders of these faiths take some of the truths found in the already existent deposit of faith in the Church, and then twist the rest or just add to them according to how they want their religion to be. Of course, the problem here is the Protestantism is not much different from this.

But yes, I generally agree with Cursillo here. I can only hope that reality will play out like Hilaire Belloc says it will when he claims that eventually all cults run out of steam because falsehood is just actually unsustainable. Only truth unites, but error divides, as John Hardon, SJ and others have said. Eventually, an erroneous cult will just self-implode because falsehood is not a very sure foundation on which to build and maintain a religion.

[quote=cursillo255]I would have to say “Yes, it is a big scam”. Christ has already died for ours sins and given us the gift of Salvation and shown us the way which leads to eternal Life. Mohammed comes along approx. 600 years later with a new “revelation” (with many “revelations” to follow throughout his lifetime whenever he needed to clarify a point or change a position to fit his personal whims). One only needs to look at how Christ’s divinity is denied and the often brutal ways in which Islam was spread and instituted, - and no believing Christian can think this comes from God. In fact, the use of certain Bibilical characters (Angel messagers) and relative adherence to the Torah and bits and pieces of the New Testament just shows how Satan is the Ape of God. He mimics God’s plans with certains truths while all along leading people into a collective denial of the One true way of Salvation (through Jesus Christ). Satan has already lost the War, - he is simply trying to win a few battles along the way (and unfortunately try and take a few more Billions souls with him).

I pray for mass conversion in the Islamic World !!
[/quote]


#8

[quote=space ghost]I respectfully disagree… and thank heavens for your attempt at charity… i suggest a thorough reading on the Islam faith, and don’t let a few radicals mold your perception… Like Islam, christianity has it’s finatics, and both groups have been guilty of some pretty rotten crimes down through history… i just believe that we need to look less for the splinter in their eye…

keep a sharp eye on our timber however… :thumbsup:
[/quote]

Give me a break! How can you even equate Christianity and Islam in this way! As you said in another thread, shame on you.

Look for the splinter in our eye…riiiiight. OK so if you refuse to condemn the mass murder of innocents in the name of Allah, then I will. Perhaps you can cite a few verses from the Bible calling on Jews and Christians to murder non-believers…to murder anyone, for that matter. Hey, Christianity is “like” Islam, according to your post, right? Your comparison is utterly wrong. It would be like saying, “Like serial killer Charles Manson, Pope John Paul II is a sinner, because all men are sinners.”

Why are some people so reluctant to call a spade a spade? If someone murdered your wife/friend/mother in a car bomb, would you say, “Hey I cannot blame them because Christians have done bad things too.”


#9

Sure, Islam will run out of steam any time, now. After 1,400 years or so, they’re due, right?

I also think it’s very dangerous to attribute the actions of a few to an entire religion. Do you guys want to be defined by Torquemada or the Polish Catholics who led pogroms in the 19th century? *

And, KTM, do you want to show me the Bible verses that justify the Inquisition?

The problem actually really is simple. If you believe that the Catholic church is the one true church, then Islam is a big scam, just like Mormonism, Buddhism, or those depraved high church Episcopalians. Why even bother to discuss it?

If you believe that there is more than one way into heaven, then it seems like a reasonable question to debate whether Islam is one of those ways. Anyone interested in doing that?*


#10

You miss my point. No place does Christ say to his apostles, Go and kill the unbelievers. Quite the opposite - love your enemies and those who persecute you. Compare that to the commandments in the Koran to go kill infidels.

Of course evil has been committed by Christians over the years, I did not deny it. But they did so in contravention to the teachings of Jesus! Compare this to the founder of this other religion we’re discussing, who explicitly commanded his followers to commit murder, rape, etc.

For goodness’ sake, people! If you believe that the Jesus is the Christ, the Savior of mankind, why must you feel this need to equate our faith with one that so obviously is lacking in many truths?


#11

I see from another post you are a former Catholic. If you are interested in reading about the Inquisition, click on this link for some information from Catholic Answers.


#12

Islam is actually a pyramid scheme. Once you reach the 33rd level of Islam you find out that you are actually working for Amway.


#13

[quote=ktm]Compare this to the founder of this other religion we’re discussing, who explicitly commanded his followers to commit murder, rape, etc.
[/quote]

I’m not saying Muhammad was a nice guy, not at all. But do you want to go back and look at the record of some of the OT prophets? I mean, we all know where Shibboleth gets his name from, right?

There are two ways to look at this issue: (1) The Roman Catholic Church is the one true church. If that’s true, then this is a really silly discussion. Of course Islam is wrong, and it doesn’t really matter how wrong it is, does it? And if it’s wrong, anyone taken in by it is a dupe and fool, and anyone who promotes it is [insert a really bad thing here]. And, if these things are true, then this is a really pointless discussion, isn’t it?

(2) The Roman Catholic Church is not the one true church, and there is more than one path to heaven. Then (and only then) does there seem to be any point to getting to the relative merits of Islam and Catholicism.

Thanks for the link on the inquisition, by the way. I may have to go dust off my master’s thesis and re-read it.

I wonder if I did the “quote” thing right?


#14

Maybe you’re right it is a waste of time to discuss this. I don’t think I personally could convince you to come back to the Church after your trip through other religions, so why bother?

At any rate, let me say I am glad to see a non-Christian on the board. They are far and few between on these forums. Maybe you and our resident wiccan can tag-team. :smiley:

And yes, you got the quote feature correct. Took me a few tries also.


#15

Yes, I can see that my question is rather pointless now…as choice #1 is correct. Anything else is just a “scam” but there are useful teachings from other religions. Regarding Islam though…I’m not seeing much to learn from.

Thanks all!


#16

[quote=ktm]Maybe you’re right it is a waste of time to discuss this. I don’t think I personally could convince you to come back to the Church after your trip through other religions, so why bother?
[/quote]

Man, you give up easy. I could be ripe for the plucking, but you’ll never find out with that kind of attitude…

And I’m not sure where you get the “trip through other religions” business. There’s really only been one other one, if you don’t count the Rastafarians. They kicked me out when I went bald.


#17

[quote=Auberon Quin]Man, you give up easy. I could be ripe for the plucking, but you’ll never find out with that kind of attitude…

And I’m not sure where you get the “trip through other religions” business. There’s really only been one other one, if you don’t count the Rastafarians. They kicked me out when I went bald.
[/quote]

I made the “trip” comment because of a post of yours elsewhere from going to Catholic to Buddhist. You made an ironic comment about high Episcopalians, so I thought perhaps you had been one of those as well. Evidently I was incorrect.

Well you ARE posting here, so you must have some interest in Catholicism…or bringing people away from it, one or the other. Which is it? Are you having second thoughts about having left?

If you want the reason why I gave up “quickly,” it’s because I have so little patience for cradle Catholics who give up their faith, especially for something like Buddhism. But hey if you are sincerely discerning Catholicism again, then fire away with your questions or objections. Folks on this board are very knowledeable and can answer any question you raise.


#18

[quote=ktm]You miss my point. No place does Christ say to his apostles, Go and kill the unbelievers. Quite the opposite - love your enemies and those who persecute you. Compare that to the commandments in the Koran to go kill infidels.
[/quote]

Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. “For I came to SET A MAN AGAINST HIS FATHER, AND A DAUGHTER AGAINST HER MOTHER, AND A DAUGHTER-IN-LAW AGAINST HER MOTHER-IN-LAW; and A MAN’S ENEMIES WILL BE THE MEMBERS OF HIS HOUSEHOLD.” [size=]He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me.[/size]

Matthew 10:34-37

And He said to them, "But now, whoever has a money belt is to take it along, likewise also a bag, and whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one.

Luke 22:36

"If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple.

Luke 14:26

Of course these verses are all taken out of context but the bottom line is you are not giving Muslims the same courtesy (of being able to interpret their own scriptures)…

-C


#19

[quote=Calvin]Of course these verses are all taken out of context but the bottom line is you are not giving Muslims the same courtesy (of being able to interpret their own scriptures)…
[/quote]

Hi Calvin! Long time no chat.

I understand what you are trying to do. But maybe you can explain to me in what context “kill the unbelievers” would not mean what it says. I would welcome it if some Muslim could tell me if my literal interpretation is wrong! Seriously, I want to believe that Islam really is a religion of peace.

If the Koran only once said “kill the unbelievers” then I might be able to look past it and be convinced of some interpretation. But it appears so many times that I can’t help but question the entire faith.


#20

well, there seems to be a rash of anti-Islamic postings today.
(please check out the debate over in Apologetics)

I’m deeply saddend by all this, and worry what a Muslim reading this hatred of Islam might think. Because this hatred, this calling Islam a “satanic cult” is not a Catholic attitude toward Islam. The Church has a correct, loving and merciful attitude towards other religions, or I should say to those who practice other religions. Let’s be clear about one thing: no religion has ever murdered another human. Many PEOPLE, professing various religions (including Catholicism) have murdered other people.

May God have mercy on us all.
(and yes, I support the war on terrorism and even the invasion of Iraq)


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