Islam and Monotheism

Hello,

I’m a new member here, and I wanted to recognize an article written by Friar Harrison, Muslims Worship the One True God. I think that many folks I’ve met, in the grips of their xenophobia and lack of religious conviction, try to malign Islam, calling it a “cult of the moon god” - and offering biased, pseudo-scientific articles based on circumstantial evidence as proof.

While as a traditional Jew I do not follow Islam or Catholicism, I am always driven by the pursuit of Truth. Therefore, I appreciate Friar Harrison taking a rational, clearly-thought approach to the analysis of Islam and Muslim ideology. It is pleasurable to see such scholarly and objective thinking.

I hope to learn a great deal here.

Shalom,

Gil

[quote=GilKobrin]Hello,

I’m a new member here, and I wanted to recognize an article written by Friar Harrison, Muslims Worship the One True God. I think that many folks I’ve met, in the grips of their xenophobia and lack of religious conviction, try to malign Islam, calling it a “cult of the moon god” - and offering biased, pseudo-scientific articles based on circumstantial evidence as proof.

While as a traditional Jew I do not follow Islam or Catholicism, I am always driven by the pursuit of Truth. Therefore, I appreciate Friar Harrison taking a rational, clearly-thought approach to the analysis of Islam and Muslim ideology. It is pleasurable to see such scholarly and objective thinking.

I hope to learn a great deal here.

Shalom,

Gil
[/quote]

A cult of the moon god? Surely not:

Satan said to Christ that he would offer him all the kingdoms of the Earth to rule…if only Christ would worship him.

He said the same thing to Mohommed…only Mohommed accepted the offer. Muslims do not worship God at all…they worship and serve the enemy of our race (albeit the vast majority of them do this out of ignorance).

While as a traditional Jew I do not follow Islam or Catholicism, I am always driven by the pursuit of Truth.

Welcome! What’s a “traditional Jew”? Orthodox?

There are only two God-made religions – you belong to one, I belong to the other.:smiley:

Hope you enjoy Catholic Answers.

JMJ Jay

I would ask, sir, what you base that assertion - namely, that Allah is Satan - on.

Furthermore, to quote the article I linked,

[quote=“Friar Harrisson”]Some “traditionalist” Catholics cite these statements of the Council and the Pope as evidence for the sedevacantist position, which holds that the See of Peter is vacant, i.e., that there has been no true pope since Vatican II. Their thinking is that since Allah is a false god, the statements of Paul VI and John Paul II to the contrary constitute public heresy—even apostasy and idolatry—which is incompatible with their being true popes.
[/quote]

Is it your opinion that the Papacy is currently vactant?

There are indeed some evidences that Al-ilah was a moon God and Al-ilah was worshipped before Islam/Muhammad…
For instance…
Muhammad’s father name was “Abd-Allah” (servant of Allah)

see:
bible.ca/islam/islam-allah-pre-islamic-origin.htm
bible.ca/islam/islam-moon-god.htm
nccg.org/islam/Islam01-Allah.html

[quote=Katholikos]Welcome! What’s a “traditional Jew”? Orthodox?
[/quote]

A traditional Jew is one who follows the Jewish Testament (Genesis - Chronicles), the Mishna-Talmud, and the rulings of the Rabbis. I once identified as an Orthodox Jew, but have since come to disassociate from their political standings. Furthermore, as the Hassidic movement (the common picture of Jewry) is increasingly viewed by non-Jews as the face of Orthodoxy, I can no longer in good taste bear that name.

There are only two God-made religions – you belong to one, I belong to the other.:smiley:
Hope you enjoy Catholic Answers.
JMJ Jay

Thank you for the kind words and for the warm welcome!

Shalom,

Gil

[quote=GilKobrin]Hello,

I’m a new member here, and I wanted to recognize an article written by Friar Harrison, Muslims Worship the One True God. I think that many folks I’ve met, in the grips of their xenophobia and lack of religious conviction, try to malign Islam, calling it a “cult of the moon god” - and offering biased, pseudo-scientific articles based on circumstantial evidence as proof.

While as a traditional Jew I do not follow Islam or Catholicism, I am always driven by the pursuit of Truth. Therefore, I appreciate Friar Harrison taking a rational, clearly-thought approach to the analysis of Islam and Muslim ideology. It is pleasurable to see such scholarly and objective thinking.

I hope to learn a great deal here.

Shalom,

Gil
[/quote]

Welcome, Gil. It’s always nice to speak with an adherent of our “father religion”.

God is so good to give us holy and thoughtful priests like Father Harrison. I agree with his article, and simply reading the Koran demonstrates that Islam understands God to have many of the same attributes that Christianity does. Islam specifically denies the Trinitarian nature of God, and I think that’s the root of all the Islamic heresies. G.K. Chesterton recognized the implications of this 100 years ago when he called Muslims the “cruel children of a lonely God”.

[quote=Ozanf]There are indeed some evidences that Al-ilah was a moon God and Al-ilah was worshipped before Islam/Muhammad…
For instance…
Muhammad’s father name was “Abd-Allah” (servant of Allah)
see:
bible.ca/islam/islam-allah-pre-islamic-origin.htm
bible.ca/islam/islam-moon-god.htm
nccg.org/islam/Islam01-Allah.html
[/quote]

The articles you have quoted, sir, are the very pseudo-scientific works I referred to in my original post. Al-Ilah literally means “the god” in Arabic; it is an honorific used to refer to any primary deity. The title “abed-allah,” or “servant of the god,” was reserved for the priests of a deity.

Maligners of Islam aslo seem to harp on the use of the crescent moon as a symbol in Islam as conclusive evidence that Allah is the moon god. While it is important to note that most primitive cultures incorporated moon and star motifs into their symbolism, it is equally important to put the Muslim-Arab use of the crescent moon into perspective. As desert nomads, the original Muslims did not use a solar calendar (as found in agrarian cultures), but rather exclusively used a lunar calendar (as befitting a culture in which the primary mode of living was by traveling every few weeks or so). Consequently, the use of a crescent moon - the prototypical depiction of the moon’s phases, that is - in Muslim symbolism comes as no surprise, and is indicative not of idolatrous overtones but of cultural history.

[quote=StJeanneDArc]Welcome, Gil. It’s always nice to speak with an adherent of our “father religion”.
[/quote]

Thank you, it is nice to engage in such discussion.

God is so good to give us holy and thoughtful priests like Father Harrison. I agree with his article, and simply reading the Koran demonstrates that Islam understands God to have many of the same attributes that Christianity does.

I believe this to be true, as well.

Let me tell you, in a world with so much blind bigotry and xenophobic ignorance, it is quite refreshing to come across someone as intellectually honest and diligent as your Father Harrison (now I know what “Fr.” stands for! :)).

“Al-Ilah literally means “the god” in Arabic”

I don’t think so…
Actually “ilah” means “God” in arabic…
“Al-ilah” was an idol in Kaba (There were 360 idols one of them was Allah)

And even some muslims(at least in my country) agree that…
For example…
According to Professor Dr. Yaþar Nuri Öztürk(a famous muslim and expert on islam in Turkey) “Allah was worshipped in Kaba by idol worshippers BEFORE Muhammad and Quran implies it” (however he still thinks this doesn’t make islam a “moon God cult”)

Is Father Harrison Brian W. Harrison? Thanks. JMJ Jay

[quote=Ozanf]"Al-Ilah literally means “the god” in Arabic"
I don’t think so…
Actually “ilah” means “God” in arabic…
“Al-ilah” was an idol in Kaba (There were 360 idols one of them was Allah)
[/quote]

Sir, you said it yourself - “Ilah” means “god” in Arabic. When preceeded by “al,” which is the definite article in Arabic, it becomes “the god” - not referring to a specific deity. While it has been suggested that one of the idols in Qaba, bearing the honorific “the god,” is indeed Allah (also “the God”), there does not exist any evidence of this. Perhaps if the idol was known by a secondary (non-honorific) name, and Allah was also known by that name, then such a position might be supportable.

(It is interesting to note, as a sidepoint, that the Arabic “ilah” is linguistically related to the Hebrew “el,” meaning “god”)

And even some muslims(at least in my country) agree that…
For example…
According to Professor Dr. Yaþar Nuri Öztürk(a famous muslim and expert on islam in Turkey) “Allah was worshipped in Kaba by idol worshippers BEFORE Muhammad and Quran implies it”

As evidenced by his reviews, Professor Ozturk professes views that are not widely accepted and are considered heretical by a good portion of Muslims. While that may or may not be blind adherence to previously held notions on their part, it is worthwhile to note how he is viewed by the Muslim community.

I was unable to find such a quote from him, however, as the one you presented. Would you please provide me with a source, so that I might view it in its entirety and in context?

[quote=Katholikos]Is Father Harrison Brian W. Harrison? Thanks. JMJ Jay
[/quote]

Yes sir, the full title of the article I referenced in my original post was “Muslims Worship the One True God: Only Their ‘Receiving Apparatus’ Is Defective,” By Fr. Brian W. Harrison, O.S."

here is a small example…

"**"Soru: **Allah kelimesi Kur’an’ýn öðrettiði bir isim midir yoksa eskiden beri var olan bir kelime midir? Cevap: Allah arapça bir kelimedir. Ve Ýslam öncesinde de kullanýlýrdý.( **The word “Allah” was used BEFORE islam)**Kelimeler bizim içindir. Allah’ýn mahiyetini anlatamazlar. Önemli olan Allah hakkýndaki kavram ve düþüncemizdir. "

yeniboyut.com/sorudetay.asp?sid=373

[quote=Ozanf]here is a small example…
""Soru: Allah kelimesi Kur’an’ýn öðrettiði bir isim midir yoksa eskiden beri var olan bir kelime midir? Cevap: Allah arapça bir kelimedir. Ve Ýslam öncesinde de kullanýlýrdý.( **The word “Allah” was used BEFORE islam)**Kelimeler bizim içindir. Allah’ýn mahiyetini anlatamazlar. Önemli olan Allah hakkýndaki kavram ve düþüncemizdir."
[/quote]

Again, sir, I would point out that the word “al-ilah” does not refer to any god in particular, necessarily. Therefore, it is not surprising that other gods were referred to as “the god.”

Allah, as worshipped by Muslims and depicted in the Quran, is synonymous with the Jewish God (and the Christian Father): A non-physical, omnipotent/omniscient deity which acted as the First Cause (to phrase it in an Aristotelian fashion). He takes an active role in the course of human events, and has been known to transmit knowledge to humanity via prophecy. That basic description does not include references to the moon, or to an idol (both of which, may I point out, are physical entities).

When Muslims worship, as per the Hadiths, they do not worship an idol. They do not worship the moon. They worship a non-physical (and therefore non-visible) deity whom they term “the god.” The fact that their ancestors may have termed a different deity “the god” does not reflect on the object of their worship today.

"Allah, as worshipped by Muslims and depicted in the Quran, is synonymous with the Jewish God (and the Christian Father): A non-physical, omnipotent/omniscient deity which acted as the First Cause (to phrase it in an Aristotelian fashion). "

From an ex-muslim (expert on arabic):

"Why Allah of the Quran is not the same as Yahweh of the Bible? "

answer-islam.org/ShowLetter.htm

[quote=Ozanf]"Allah, as worshipped by Muslims and depicted in the Quran, is synonymous with the Jewish God (and the Christian Father): A non-physical, omnipotent/omniscient deity which acted as the First Cause (to phrase it in an Aristotelian fashion). "
From an ex-muslim (expert on arabic):
"Why Allah of the Quran is not the same as Yahweh of the Bible? "
[/quote]

The letter you referenced, sir, based an entire analysis on a single error. That is, it assumed that if one asserts that Allah as described in the Quran is the God of the Jews, then the Quran itself must be the word of God.

The answer to the salient question running throughout the letter is simple: The God Muhammed described in the Quran was indeed the God of the Jews - however, Muhammed simply utilized the preexisting (Jewish) notions about God in his desription. It is not necessary to believe that the Quran was revealed to Muhammed by God in order to accept this point.

I can not accept the letter’s arguments of exegesis and linguistics, simply because I believe the author to have a mistaken understanding of the Bible and of Judaism. In that light, I can only dismiss its (circumstantial) assertion that Allah can not refer to the God of the Jews.

God’s revelation that Christ is the Way and the final covenent means that Islam (which is contradictory and subsequent to Christianity) is a false religion. God would not found a false religion, so Islam was not founded by God.

What being of light might Mohommed have met and wrestled with in the desert? What being might Mohommed have agreed to worship in exchange for worldly goods? Who would stand to gain if a rival religion to Christianity were established?

The answer is clear. Don’t let political correctness get in the way of our seeing the truth.

Christian martyrs are killed: Islamic martyrs kill.

Which is of God, and which is of the devil?

[quote=Tom of Assisi]God’s revelation that Christ is the Way and the final covenent means that Islam (which is contradictory and subsequent to Christianity) is a false religion. God would not found a false religion, so Islam was not founded by God.
What being of light might Mohommed have met and wrestled with in the desert? What being might Mohommed have agreed to worship in exchange for worldly goods? Who would stand to gain if a rival religion to Christianity were established?
The answer is clear. Don’t let political correctness get in the way of our seeing the truth.
Which is of God, and which is of the devil?
[/quote]

I believe you are mistaken in asserting that if Islam wasn’t founded by God, then it was founded by the Satan. Perhaps (and this is my position) Muhammed can not be believed that anything (or -one) appeared to him, and the whole religion is man-made.

[quote=GilKobrin]I believe you are mistaken in asserting that if Islam wasn’t founded by God, then it was founded by the Satan. Perhaps (and this is my position) Muhammed can not be believed that anything (or -one) appeared to him, and the whole religion is man-made.
[/quote]

I agree that if Islam was not founded by Satan, then Mohomed must have made the whole thing up much like Joseph Smith would centuries later.

Islam is not compatable with the Judeo-Christian tradition. Certainly not simply because it claims to believe in one God. We cannot say “well they worship one deity as do we, therefore it must be the same one.” The god of Mohomed and the Koran is incompatable with the God of the Bible (Old and New Testament).

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