Islam question


#1

It seems as an outsider, the Muslims appear very devout believers. I always wondered what it was that give them a strong faith. I never hear of miracles associated with Islam, so why do they believe so strongly in what Mohammad says?


#2

maybe they don’t want to get killed by other muslims for not praying hard enough.

:tsktsk:


#3

Islamic dissenter’s page:
secularislam.org/testimonies/testimonies.htm


#4

The islamics don’t belive in miracles, the only miracle is the Qur’an (Coran).
Their faith is fanatic, but not all the muslims have a string faith.
I remember in Germany where are over 3 mill. islamic people;
at the lunch time in a company, a mulsim(named Abdul) ate pork and a christian told him “But your God doesn’t see what are you eating? I know muslmims must not eat pork, it is writen in the Coran.” And Abdul answerd: “Yes,. but Allah cannot see me because the ceiling is very thick”.


#5

[quote=upbeatjonm]It seems as an outsider, the Muslims appear very devout believers. I always wondered what it was that give them a strong faith. I never hear of miracles associated with Islam, so why do they believe so strongly in what Mohammad says?
[/quote]

If you’re looking for non-derogatory answers, you might try an Islamic web site. A quick google search in the word “Islam” should give you some good options.


#6

Yes,. but Allah cannot see me because the ceiling is very thick".

I really LOL on this one…:rotfl: :rotfl: :wave:

Pio


#7

[quote=upbeatjonm]It seems as an outsider, the Muslims appear very devout believers. I always wondered what it was that give them a strong faith. I never hear of miracles associated with Islam, so why do they believe so strongly in what Mohammad says?
[/quote]

In Jakarta, Muslim organizations provided a huge amount of services to the poor that the government would not or could not, do. It should come as no surprise that people look favorably on groups who are perceived to be helping them.


#8

I don’t want to sound anti-Islamic and I hope I don’t.

In my Qu’ranic readings, Allah seems like a very vengeful God. An Islamic scholar will probably say that it is because Yahweh, in the Old Testament, sounds very vengeful at times, and that Muslims (from a Christain point of view) do not grasp the Old and the New the same way Christians do. In that sense, they will not know of the loving Father that Jesus taught of.

I think it may come from fear of the nature of Allah to remain Muslim. That doesn’t mean that I think that there aren’t people who are Muslim without that fear.


#9

[quote=AmandaPS]I don’t want to sound anti-Islamic and I hope I don’t.

In my Qu’ranic readings, Allah seems like a very vengeful God. An Islamic scholar will probably say that it is because Yahweh, in the Old Testament, sounds very vengeful at times, and that Muslims (from a Christain point of view) do not grasp the Old and the New the same way Christians do. In that sense, they will not know of the loving Father that Jesus taught of.

I think it may come from fear of the nature of Allah to remain Muslim. That doesn’t mean that I think that there aren’t people who are Muslim without that fear.
[/quote]

For a Catholic’s point of view from a Muslim convert, consider reading “Inside Islam: A Guide for Catholics” by Daniel Ali, Robert Spencer. Undoubtedly many Muslims are devout, but there are many problems with Islam theologically. We are blessed to be Catholics!


#10

Islam is a religion of absolutes, no moral relativism here, and that is what many people crave. Catholicism also teaches ‘moral absolutism’, but many Catholics, including our clergy, don’t practice this. As you can see be the growth of Islam, people need to KNOW what is right and what is wrong. The Church needs educate all people, not just Catholics, that the Church holds to TRUTH.

Spread the Word, spread the Truth!


#11

[quote=upbeatjonm]It seems as an outsider, the Muslims appear very devout believers. I always wondered what it was that give them a strong faith. I never hear of miracles associated with Islam, so why do they believe so strongly in what Mohammad says?
[/quote]

The primary emphasis of Islamic devotion is fear, the Muslim is enjoined to *fear *Allah not to love him and it is clear from the Koran Allah does not love the Muslim either, this is results in an atmosphere of coercion - worship me or else!.
Every society where Islam is dominate is totalitarian, apostasy is the greatest crime in Islamic law and punishable by death. It’s not hard to be found guilty of apostasy in most of these societies. Islam does not allow critical reviews of it’s own doctrines and there are no legal, public groups that oppose Islam in these societies, any group that did would find it’s members on the wrong end of a sword in the public square.
I think it it very like most Muslims are *not *particularly devout. Rather they are forced to observe the rituals of the religion - this is the main focus of Islam - public observance and conformity to the 5 pillars of the faith.
Saudi Arabia, arguably the most important Muslim country, has religious police that will chase them to prayer 5 times a day as well as enforce all the other aspects of the Islamic legal code - dress, behavior, speech etc.
Many of the American Muslims ie Nation of Islam wouldn’t make it in an Arabic society, they’d be heretics or apostates. It’s a very ugly religion IMO. I’ve read enough at this point to come to the belief that yes it is probably connected to the Arian hereasy but it appears more than likely there was a little infernal intervention as well.


#12

What Bud said. Islam is a very basic religion, and the complexity of Christianity puts us at a disadvantage in areas where missionaries of both religions are proselytizing.

If you’re some pagan, looking for a better answer, and a Muslim comes along, saying, "My God is the only God, and you must do the following:

  1. Profess your faith to him
  2. Pray five times a day
  3. Abstain during Ramadan
  4. Give to the poor
  5. Journey to Mecca once in your life
    That’s all there is to it, although we’ve got plenty of guidelines to help you follow these five pillars"

Then along comes a Christian, saying "My God is the only God. Here are 10 Commandments you must follow - they’re pretty basic. Oh, and by the way, my God had a son. But the son is God, too, and the same God, but distinct. Did I mention there’s also a spirit flying around who is God, and the same God, but also distinct? And after God made us, he decided he needed to save us, since we are prone to sin - no, he didn’t exactly make us that way, but… So to save us from sin, he decided the best way would be to kill his son - remember, the one who is also God? -

By this time, the pagan’s head is swimming, and he high-tails it back to the Muslim.

So there is a very real difficulty in explaining the truth to non-Christians, without it seeming confusing and bizarre. In Islam, on the other hand, you can save the more whacked-out aspects of the faith for after the person is converted and pretty well set in their path.


#13

[quote=digitonomy]What Bud said. Islam is a very basic religion, and the complexity of Christianity puts us at a disadvantage in areas where missionaries of both religions are proselytizing.

If you’re some pagan, looking for a better answer, and a Muslim comes along, saying, "My God is the only God, and you must do the following:

  1. Profess your faith to him
  2. Pray five times a day
  3. Abstain during Ramadan
  4. Give to the poor
  5. Journey to Mecca once in your life
    That’s all there is to it, although we’ve got plenty of guidelines to help you follow these five pillars"

Then along comes a Christian, saying "My God is the only God. Here are 10 Commandments you must follow - they’re pretty basic. Oh, and by the way, my God had a son. But the son is God, too, and the same God, but distinct. Did I mention there’s also a spirit flying around who is God, and the same God, but also distinct? And after God made us, he decided he needed to save us, since we are prone to sin - no, he didn’t exactly make us that way, but… So to save us from sin, he decided the best way would be to kill his son - remember, the one who is also God? -

By this time, the pagan’s head is swimming, and he high-tails it back to the Muslim.

So there is a very real difficulty in explaining the truth to non-Christians, without it seeming confusing and bizarre. In Islam, on the other hand, you can save the more whacked-out aspects of the faith for after the person is converted and pretty well set in their path.
[/quote]

You hit it right on. This was one of the main reasons for why I converted to Islam in my teens. I have always believed in God, but couldn’t understand Trinity. Islam view God as one and undivided God who have no sons or daughters.

Way after I had converted and was married off to a Pakistani Muslim I understood more and more of what Islam was about. I got bits and pieces here and there. I rejected what I didn’t like about Islam and accepted what I liked. I was what you can call a genuine “Cafeteria” Muslim.


#14

I have to add that I wasn’t a pagan, but a baptized Lutheran who wasn’t raised as a Christian. I got what I call a secular upbringing.


#15

Greetings, Sunniva! Thank you for sharing your insights on Islam.

I was wondering if you could shed some light on a question I have about some of the writings in the Qur’an. When it mentions Allah or the Oneness of Allah, it includes in parenthesis (Islamic Monotheism). How then do they square that with what was written in Surah 2 where there are plenty examples of the plural “We” being used? If you’d like, I can type in some examples.


#16

Hi, AmandaPS.

I have to say even if I was a semi-practicing Muslim for years I never went deep into Islam’s teachings and dogmas (if there are any).

Please, come with some examples from Sura 2 and if you have a link to a site to a “online Quran” I would be grateful. I left my Qurans (had a couple) home when I have to flee from my home (which is another story).

I will try to explain out from what I know and understand about Islamic monotheism. The best will however be to go to some good Islamic sites. Maybe an Islamic equivalent of Catholic Answers and ask there.

kjvail said:

Every society where Islam is dominate is totalitarian, apostasy is the greatest crime in Islamic law and punishable by death. It’s not hard to be found guilty of apostasy in most of these societies. Islam does not allow critical reviews of it’s own doctrines and there are no legal, public groups that oppose Islam in these societies, any group that did would find it’s members on the wrong end of a sword in the public square

(bolded by me).

This is one of the reasons that I had to flee from my country, Norway. My ex-husband and his family, friends and aquaintances threatened to kill me if I left him. I didn’t dare to say that I also had left Islam long before that. I pretended to practice and pretend that I was still a Muslim only to save my own life. I knew that I sooner or later had to get away from it all.

I also knew that I had to “disappear” from the face of the Earth and pray that they will never find me. The goverment does not have any good programs for cases like my case, and I know that I’m not alone. In Norway there have been several incidents where women have run away from home and got a secret address. Unfortunately, because of gliches in some goverment agencies and services the whereabouts of those women have leaked out and the women have been killed and (some have managed to run away again and have to build up their life again.


#17

[quote=retina_md]For a Catholic’s point of view from a Muslim convert, consider reading “Inside Islam: A Guide for Catholics” by Daniel Ali, Robert Spencer. Undoubtedly many Muslims are devout, but there are many problems with Islam theologically. We are blessed to be Catholics!
[/quote]

This was an excellent book which really helped my own understanding of Islam. It is written in Q&A format, covers the major points of the what Muslims believe, and very easy to understand.

Peace…


#18

[quote=Sunniva]You hit it right on. This was one of the main reasons for why I converted to Islam in my teens. I have always believed in God, but couldn’t understand Trinity. Islam view God as one and undivided God who have no sons or daughters.

Way after I had converted and was married off to a Pakistani Muslim I understood more and more of what Islam was about. I got bits and pieces here and there. I rejected what I didn’t like about Islam and accepted what I liked. I was what you can call a genuine “Cafeteria” Muslim.
[/quote]

Sunniva - click this URL : answering-islam.org.uk/Gilchrist/Challenge/index.html. It’s a good palce to start to learn about the questions muslims ask (almost 99% of the time) whether liberal or fundamental towards Christians.

I totally understand where you come from, the “Holy Trinity” is the weakest of all Church doctrines in terms of having one right answer, yet it is who GOD is. Why should GOD to the muslims have to be fully comprehened, why can’t he be mysterious in terms of himself. Why is it soo difficult for Muslims to accept that GOD could come down to earth in the form of man, in the person of Jesus Christ, why? Is not GOD all powerful and all knowning?. Mulsims have this misconception that man became GOD, when its the other way around , GOD became man.

I have many muslims friends and I respect them and care for them as I would my family, but I have noticed one thing, no matter if they are liberal muslims or semi-liberal or fundamental muslims, they are thought when they are very young that Islam is the greatest of all religions and that Christians and Jews (especailly) are non-believers. Let me ask you, growing up in Norway, and going to Chruch there, did you ever hear the priest or pastor talk about Islam and muslims, it never happened in my church, but in their Mosques on Friday’s they are yelling on the top of their lungs about how the troubles in this world are all because of the non-believers (christians, jews, pagans…etc), but they never reflect on themselves. Only after sept 11th, some muslims like Irshad Manji (oh by-the-way, here book “trouble with Islam” is an excellent book) are coming out and speaking about what Islam has become.

Please check out the URL and buy Irshad Manji’s book, it will help you a great deal.

thanks

Seeker


#19

Sunniva, I haven’t forgotten about my question, but also haven’t gotten my brain in gear to search for online Qur’ans to clarify it. Sorry. :o


#20

[quote=AmandaPS]Greetings, Sunniva! Thank you for sharing your insights on Islam.

I was wondering if you could shed some light on a question I have about some of the writings in the Qur’an. When it mentions Allah or the Oneness of Allah, it includes in parenthesis (Islamic Monotheism). How then do they square that with what was written in Surah 2 where there are plenty examples of the plural “We” being used? If you’d like, I can type in some examples.
[/quote]

Once I had the same question like you Amanda, then I got the answer from Answering-Islam site, the author name Silas, not that much though but at least he explains :

The “We” is speaking of Islam’s god, Allah.
The Quran is full of the usage of “we” for Allah. I have heard that it denotes royality, like a British Queen would use the term “we” instead of “I” when she is speaking for herself. But, I don’t think that that is the real reason.

STILL we need some one who can explain us why God uses term US rather than I :confused:

Cute


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