Islam/Quran/Muhammad are peaceful and humanitarian; not racial

I wrote a post titled “A misconception 'Muslims must fight Jews ’ clarified”:forums.catholic.com/showpost.php?p=4474283&postcount=24

Due to the importance of the subject, I thought, I should start a new thread.

Hi

It is just a misconception of our friend Euharisted that:

Muslims must fight Jews

Quran is the primary source of guidance for Muslims. Islam/Quran/Muhammad are peaceful and humanitarian, there are no instructions in Quran to kill Jews indiscriminately and for nothing.

At least I don’t see any.

Islam is not a racial oriented religion and is not against any race/color/nation and respects every human being. It is only against the wrong concepts.

Please quote from Quran to establish your viewpoint.
I think it were not the Muslims who did the holocaust.

The Second Coming 1835-1908 had refuted such misconceived thoughts; of the CatholicsProtestantsJWs and also of the TraditionalMuslims. In fact, the Advent of Second Coming was necessitated to eradicate such wrong thoughts about Religion. Please read the “introduction” of his book “Jesus in India”: alislam.org/library/books…dia/intro.html. I only give two excerpts from it:

  1. “I have written this book, so that, by adducing proofs from established facts, from conclusive historical evidence of proved value and from ancient documents of non-Muslims, I might remove the serious misconceptions which are current among Muslims and among most Christian sects regarding the earlier and the later life of Jesus (on whom be peace) - misconceptions, the dangerous implications of which have not only injured and destroyed the conception of Divine Unity, but the unwholesome and poisonous influence of which has for long been noticed in the morals of the Muslims of this country.

Spiritual maladies, i.e., want of good morals, evil thoughts, callousness, want of sympathy, are spreading among most Islamic sects, being the result of beliefs in unfounded stories and anecdotes of this kind. Human sympathy, pity and love of justice, humility and humble-mindedness - all good qualities - are disappearing day by day, as if they will soon bid a last farewell to this community. This callousness and this immorality make many a Muslim appear no better than the beasts of the jungle.

A Jain or a Buddhist is afraid of and avoids killing even a mosquito or a flea, but, alas! there are many among us Muslims who, while they kill an innocent man or commit wanton murder, are not afraid of the powerful God, who rates human life higher than that of all the animals. What is this callousness and cruelty and want of sympathy due to? It is due to this - that from their very childhood, stories and anecdotes and wrong views of the doctrine of Jihad are dinned into their ears and inculcated into their hearts, the result being that gradually they become morally dead and cease to feel the heinousness of their hateful actions; nay, rather, the man who murders another man unawares and thus brings ruin to the murdered man’s family thinks that he has done a meritorious deed; or rather, that he has made the most of an opportunity to win favour with his community.” Unquote

  1. “Let it be known that most Muslims and Christians believe that Jesus (on whom be peace) went alive to the heavens; both these people have believed for a long time that Jesus (on whom be peace) is still alive in the heavens, and will sometime in the latter days come down to the earth. The difference in their views, i.e. the view of the followers of Islam and that of the Christians, is only this, that the Christians believe that Jesus (on whom be peace) died on the Cross, was resurrected, and went to the heavens in his earthly body, seated himself on the right hand of his Father, and will come to the earth in the latter days for judgment; they also say that the Creator and the Master of the world is this Jesus the Messiah and no one else; he it is who, in the latter days of the world, will descend to the earth with a glorious descent to award punishment and reward; then, all who will not believe in him or his mother as God, will be hauled up and thrown into hell, where weeping and wailing will be their lot.” Unquote

Thanks

Pardon the ignorance, but I’ve been under the impression that the Hadiths are the primary source for Muslims as they function as an interpreter (an arbiter if you will) of the Qur’an.

Don’t the Hadiths instruct Muslims to treat Christians and Jews as near sub-human?

Thank you.

Hello :slight_smile:

Here is what the Koran says about Jews:

The most vehement of mankind in hostility [are] the Jews and the idolators.[Surah V, v. 82]

Fight against such of those [Jews and Christians] … until they pay for the tribute readily, being brought low.[Surah IX, v. 29]

Allah fighteth against them [the Jews]. How perverse they are![Surah IX, v. 30]

Source

5.51] O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.

[5.64] And the Jews say: The hand of Allah is tied up! Their hands shall be shackled and they shall be cursed for what they say. Nay, both His hands are spread out, He expends as He pleases; and what has been revealed to you from your Lord will certainly make many of them increase in inordinacy and unbelief; and We have put enmity and hatred among them till the day of resurrection; whenever they kindle a fire for war Allah puts it out, and they strive to make mischief in the land; and Allah does not love the mischief-makers.

[2.113] And the Jews say: The Christians do not follow anything (good) and the Christians say: The Jews do not follow anything (good) while they recite the (same) Book. Even thus say those who have no knowledge, like to what they say; so Allah shall judge between them on the day of resurrection in what they differ.

[2.120] And the Jews will not be pleased with you, nor the Christians until you follow their religion. Say: Surely Allah’s guidance, that is the (true) guidance. And if you follow their desires after the knowledge that has come to you, you shall have no guardian from Allah, nor any helper.

Source

I did not quote everything found on the source pages, and there are verses which do speak favorably about Jews; however, these good verses speak against the truth of Allah, i.e., they show that he did not make up his mind about the Jews. For in one verse he says that is fine to be a Jew (verse 2:62), and than in another verse he says Jews are perverse and he fights against them (verse 9:30). How come God contradicts himself in the Koran?

I have heard many excuses for the Koran too: mistranslations, misinterpretations, using bible quotes to justify the things which Allah says, calling out on the errors and evils and sins of Jews and Christians, and many more fallacies. What I want to hear, though, is Muslims explaining why Allah is contradicting himself.

Feel free to check out www.hti.umich.edu/k/koran

That’s where I got the second batch of verses from. You can go to Simple Searches (which is what I used) and type in “Jews” if ya don’t believe this is the site I went to for the Koran verses.

Feel free, also, to correct me. I don’t mind being corrected. In fact, I believe it is better for a man to be corrected than it is for him to live and die in error.

Salaam/peace

while reading verses on war , pl. know about the background . Jesus § scolded Jews as seeds of devil etc . Does it mean that Jesus § hated Jews ?

I gave an example in other thread that Muhammed § gave a verdict in favour of a Jew . A Muslim did not want to accept that , he went to Omar (ra) to complain & was killed. Prophet warned Muslims that if any injustice is done to non-Muslims , he will testify against those Muslims on the last day.

What? where does it say that? am i missing something?

Why dose Allah contradict himself in the Koran? That’s all I want to know.

For the sake of the peaceful and humanitarian religion ;):

(Quran 47:4):
Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; at length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are ye commanded): but if it had been Allah’s Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the way of Allah, He will never let their deeds be lost.

(Quran 9:5):
But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

(Quran 9:29):
Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth, from among the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued

(Quran 3:151):
Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority; their abode will be the Fire; and evil is the home of the wrong-doers!”

(Quran 98:6):
"Those who reject (Truth), among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, will be in Hell-fire, to dwell therein (for aye). They are the worst of creatures. "

(Quran 3:131):
Fear the Fire, which is prepared for those who reject Faith

(Quran 78:21):
Truly Hell is as a place of ambush

(Quran 09:73):
O Prophet! strive hard against the Unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell, an evil refuge indeed.

(Quran 72:23):
Unless I proclaim what I receive from Allah and His Messages: for any that disobey Allah and His Messenger, for them is Hell: they shall dwell therein forever.

(Quran 22:72):
When Our Clear Signs are rehearsed to them, thou wilt notice a denial on the faces of the Unbelievers! They nearly attack with violence those who rehearse Our Signs to them. Say, "Shall I tell you of something (far) worse than these Signs? It is the Fire (of Hell)! Allah has promised it to the Unbelievers! And evil is that destination!

(Quran 57:15):
This Day shall no ransom be accepted of you, nor of those who rejected Allah; your abode is the Fire: that is the proper place to claim you: and an evil refuge it is!

(Quran 64:10):
"*But those who reject Faith and treat Our Signs as falsehoods, they will be Companions of the Fire, to dwell therein for aye: and evil is that Goal. *"

(Quran 67:06):
"*For those who reject their Lord (and Cherisher) is the Penalty of Hell: and evil is (such) destination. *"

(Quran 04:56):
"Those who reject Our Signs, We shall soon cast into the Fire; as often as their skins are roasted through, We shall change them for fresh skins, that they may taste the Penalty: for Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise. "

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 261:
"*…When the Prophet was informed by a shouter for help, he sent some men in their pursuit, and before the sun rose high, they were brought, and he had their hands and feet cut off. Then he ordered for nails which were heated and passed over their eyes, and whey were left in the Harra (i.e. rocky land in Medina). They asked for water, and nobody provided them with water till they died (Abu Qilaba, a sub-narrator said, “They committed murder and theft and fought against Allah and His Apostle, and spread evil in the land.”) *"

Hi

Thanks for your input.

The Muslims have three sources for establishing themselves on Islamic guidance.

  1. First, the Holy Quran which is the Book of God than which we have no more conclusive and certain statement. It is the Word of God and is free from all doubt and speculation.

  2. Secondly, the practice of the Holy Prophet, which is called Sunnah.We do not regard hadeeth and sunnah as one.
    They are distinct, hadeeth is one thing and sunnah is another. By sunnah we mean the practice of the Holy Prophet, to which he adhered and which appeared along with the Holy Quran and will accompany it. In other words, the Holy Quran is the Word of God Almighty and the sunnah is the action of the Holy Prophet, peace be on him.

It has ever been the way of God that the Prophets bring the Word of God for the guidance of people and illustrate it in practice with their conduct so that no doubt should remain in the minds of people with regard to the Divine Word. They act upon it and urge others to do the same.

  1. The third source of guidance is hadeeth, by which we mean those traditions which were compiled from the statements of diverse narrators a century and a half after the Holy Prophet.

Now I mention salient features of the three sources of guidance:

• The distinction between sunnah and hadeeth is that sunnah is a continuous practice which was started by the Holy Prophet. It is only next to the Holy Quran in its certainty.

• As the Holy Prophet was commissioned for the propagation of the Quran, he was also commissioned for establishing the sunnah.

• As the Holy Quran is certain so is the continuous sunnah. Both these tasks were performed by the Holy Prophet as his duty. For instance, when the Prayer services were made obligatory, the Holy Prophet illustrated by his action how many rakaas were to be performed in each Prayer service. In the same way, he illustrated the performance of the pilgrimage. He thus established thousands of his companions on his practice.

• The practical illustration which has been continuous among the Muslims is the sunnah.

• On the other hand, the Holy Prophet did not have the hadeeth recorded in his presence nor did he make any arrangement for its compilation.

• Hazrat Abu Bakr, may Allah be pleased with him, had collected some ahadeeth and then had them burnt out of greater caution as he himself had not heard them from the Holy Prophet and did not know their reality.

• When the time of the companions of the Holy Prophet had passed some of their successors thought of compiling the ahadeeth and they were compiled.

• There is no doubt that most of the compilers of hadeeth were very pious and righteous. They tested the accuracy of ahadeeth as far as it was possible and tried to steer clear of such of them as in their opinion were manufactured, and they rejected every hadeeth any narrator of which was of doubtful veracity.

• As all this activity was ex post factum, it was no more than conjecture; yet it would be most unfair to say that all ahadeeth are vain and useless and false. So much care was taken in compiling the ahadeeth, and such research and criticism were employed in the task, that they cannot be matched in any other religion. The Jews also had compilations of hadeeth and Jesus was opposed by that sect of the Jews who followed the ahadeeth, but it is not proved that the Jewish compilers of hadeeth had exercised that care in compiling their collections as the Muslim compilers of hadeeth did.

• Nevertheless, it would be a mistake to imagine that till the ahadeeth were compiled, the Muslims were unaware of the details of Prayer services or did not know the proper way of performing the pilgrimage.

• The practical illustrations of the sunnah had taught them all the limits and obligations laid down by Islam.

• It is true, therefore, that even if the ahadeeth, which were collected after a long time, had not been compiled this would not have affected the real teaching of Islam for the Holy Quran and practice had fulfilled this need.

• The ahadeeth only added to that light and Islam became light upon light and the ahadeeth became testimonies for the Quran and sunnah.

• The Quran and sunnah should judge the ahadeeth and those that are not opposed to them should by all means be accepted.

• Hadeeth which is not opposed to the Quran and sunnah, should be accepted and followed.

Quran is a compact book; and is a book of systems. It provides the text and the context of the teachings for which sometimes the Whole book has to be searched, examined and then interpreted.

It is of itself a complete source and needs nothing to complete it, as against Hadith which has not this peculiarity as it was compiled very later and was never dictated by Muhammad in verbatum.

To sum up we may conclude that Hadith is not an arbiter of the Quran in any case. It is Quran that judges.

Thanks

Hi

Thank you very much for giving so many refereces.

Please do us a favor. Have a little research and make us convenient.

Kindly select one verse, just one verse, out of so many which you have copy/pasted from your sources, and make them in an order.

The verse you think is the most deadly against Jews; put that on the top. So that we understand it fully, then there won’t be any need to go to the next.

May be we save a little precious time in this way.

God bless you!

By the way; what happened to the simple questions I requested you to repy on your signatures?

I don’t remember seeing your reply, if you did reply.

Peace

Thanks

Don’t you know that Jesus died for everybody on the Cross, including the Jews?

I suppose, if there was one, it would be this one:

Fight against such of those [Jews and Christians] … until they pay for the tribute readily, being brought low.[Surah IX, v. 29]

I don’t remember any signature questions. Please, what were they again? Thank you.

Kindly select one verse, just one verse, out of so many which you have copy/pasted from your sources, and make them in an order.

The verse you think is the most deadly against Jews; put that on the top. So that we understand it fully, then there won’t be any need to go to the next.

[quote=4474658]I suppose, if there was one, it would be this one:
Fight against such of those [Jews and Christians] … until they pay for the tribute readily, being brought low.[Surah IX, v. 29]

[/quote]

Hi

So, our Catholic friend has selected the above verse which in his opinion is the most deadly verse in Quran against Jews. If this verse is clear he won’t, with all probability, quote any further verse from Quran in the issue.

But I want him to be double sure for this. This is not a formal debate; it is only a friendly discussion. One must be sure what one says. I request my Catholic and other friends in the forum to recheck the verses quoted by him and help him to be sure in selection of the verse.

To help further, I would request my friends to access:

alislam.org/quran/tafseer/guide.htm?region=E1

and click the go button after inserting the chapter and required verse number. They would get good explanation on the issue. Whether they are satisfied with the answers or not; they would be able to select the deadliest verse of Quran against Jews.

This little research won’t harm anybody. If their faith is research oriented, it won’t be difficult for the Catholic friends.

I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna.

Thanks

Look, if you can’t explain why Allah contradicts himself in the Koran, nor prove Muslims aren’t called to fight Jews, than just say so. I’m not going to play your little game.

There have been several objections that the Quran contradicts itself. However, to an outsider, it would seem that the Bible contradicts itself. For example, look at the laws of Moses. If you curse your mother and father you’re stoned to death, if you commit adultery you’re stoned to death, if someone tries to convert you stone him to death, an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. But look at Jesus, turn the other cheek, love your enemies, he who is without sin cast the first stone, and all that. There are a couple holy wars in the Old Testament that God gives the thumbs-up, but now the pope tells us that holy war is evil. Now, in context, with a Catholic understanding of these laws, and with study, we see that these things are not so contradictary. I do not pretend to have the best understanding of Islam, and I see problems with it, which is why i’m a Catholic, but don’t call Islam self contradictory or racist, unless you want people to think Christianity self contradictory and racist. Plus, I’m gonna bet that you haven’t undergone extensive study of Islam either.

islam…the religion of peace, is at it again in India. Americans and Brits are being sought as hostages by muslim missionaries. :frowning:

It is dangerous to attempt to dismiss a religion by the actions of some of its members inability to follow it. People do it all the time with Catholicism,“You guys are evil, look at the Inquisition, the Crusades, the child molesters, the corruption of some of the popes”, if you’re Catholic you’ve probably heard this argument a hundred times. I would not dismiss Islam because of the actions of the terrorists, because some terrorists have said they’re Catholics, e.g. the IRA. I would warn pismopal from using that reasoning, because for a Christian to use it is hypocrisy.

:thumbsup:

I think this is different. This is another example of the dangers of giving the most militant forms of Islam hundreds of millions of dollars. The worst and most violent Islamic beliefs are fully funded by Saudi Arabia and other oil rich countries. The most violent finge elements of Catholicism or Judaism or any other major religion never had access to this kind of money.

Your warnings, as well as your historical perspective and the usual tu quoque argument of islamists are without merit and silly.
I don’t suppose you are suggesting that Crusaders are sharpening their swords in response or that the IRA are as we write oiling their tommy guns. I don’t want to get personal here but you must do better than that to justify the actions of islamists worldwide and the utter silence of their co-religionists everywhere.

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