Islam -v- Free Speech


#1

A court has upheld an appeal by a Christian group. They had originally been found by a lower court to have villified Islam when they told the truth about that religion at a series of seminars

Court orders vilification retrial

Barney Zwartz, Religion Editor
December 14, 2006

Pastors will keep ‘telling truth’ on Muslims

Two Christian pastors found to have vilified Muslims under Victoria’s religious hatred law won their appeal and hailed the decision as a victory for free speech.

The Court of Appeal ordered the case to be reheard at the original tribunal, before a different judge and with no further evidence. It set aside the orders for public apologies in newspaper advertisements and for the pastors not to repeat their remarks.

Last year Judge Michael Higgins found that Pastors Danny Nalliah and Daniel Scot and Catch the Fire Ministries vilified Muslims at a seminar on jihad in Melbourne in March 2002, in a newsletter and a website article.

He said these suggested that the Koran promoted killing and looting, that Muslims wanted to take over Australia and terrorists were true Muslims.

Justices Geoffrey Nettle, David Ashley and Marcia Neave overturned that finding but rejected the appeal that the Racial and Religious Vilification Act was unconstitutional.

They ordered the Islamic Council of Victoria, which brought the original complaint, to pay half the appellants’ appeal costs but left the costs of the original hearing to be decided by the judge who rehears the case.

After the hearing, Pastor Nalliah said: “I’m really thankful to the Lord. I would be pleased to see it completed and not go back to the tribunal, but what we got was more than a blessing.”

He said it was a great day for free speech. He added that all laws needed to be tested, and this now had now been tested and found to be a bad piece of legislation.

Pastor Scot thanked his supporters and vowed to continue conducting seminars on the Koran and Hadiths (Islam’s sacred texts). “Some Muslims have got the idea they have to hide the truth, and that’s very sad,” he said.

“People should know it from the primary sources and not be misled by politically correct teachers who don’t know the reality of Islam and want to glorify it with false pretensions and assumptions,” he said.
theage.com.au/news/national/court-orders-vilification-retrial/2006/12/14/1165685796628.html


#2

I have always been taught that people who have no argument, or who have low self esteem, or are insecure in any way will always pick and point out the bad things in others.

Seems this is what these pastors are doing.

Why would you conduct seminars on another religions teachings?

Why not just concentrate on spreading the Word of God?

This would be like a non-Catholic minister holding a seminar on everything that is wrong with Catholicism.

It just isnt right. While they are concentrating so hard on telling people how bad this other religion are, they are losing valuable time spreading the Word of Jesus.

Very strange I think.


#3

If a religion’s teachings are a threat to other people, should they not be warned of it?


#4

[quote=kellie]Why would you conduct seminars on another religions teachings?
[/quote]

because …

Adversus Haereses by St. Irenaeus

Inasmuch as certain men have set the truth aside, and bring in lying words and vain genealogies, which, as the apostle says, “minister questions rather than godly edifying which is in faith,” and by means of their craftily-constructed plausibilities draw away the minds of the inexperienced and take them captive, * These men falsify the oracles of God, and prove themselves evil interpreters of the good word of revelation. They also overthrow the faith of many, by drawing them away, under a pretence of [superior] knowledge, from Him who rounded and adorned the universe; as if, forsooth, they had something more excellent and sublime to reveal, than that God who created the heaven and the earth, and all things that are therein. By means of specious and plausible words, they cunningly allure the simple-minded to inquire into their system; but they nevertheless clumsily destroy them, while they initiate them into their blasphemous and impious opinions respecting the Demiurge; and these simple ones are unable, even in such a matter, to distinguish falsehood from truth. (Preface No. 1)*


#5

There is nothing wrong with offering classes on Islam. Many people want to know about it but would never set foot in a mosque or talk to a Muslim or read the Koran.

If they feel safer finding out about it in the faith they are in how can that be bad? Maybe they will then feel more comfortable to get a Koran and read further? Who knows. Either way, Muslims need to be less sensitive. They get too worked up easily.


#6

So it’s impossible for anyone to study another religion.

What these pastors decided to do was to have a seminar for their own believers on Islam. They wanted a frank look into Islam, something that apparently is abhorrent to you. Moslems ‘infiltrated’ the seminars, pretending to be interested Christians and then afterwards claimed they’d been racially vilified. It was a ‘set-up’. These pastors were then persecuted by the state. They have now had their appeal upheld.

Probably to learn.

Unfortunately when spreading the word of God you sometimes need to know that other ideologies are at work. If you don’t know anything about them how can you deal with them

What’s wrong with that.

So only Moslems can understand Islam.

That is strange.


#7

How is Islam’s teachings a threat to me?
What purpose would it serve for my Parish Priest to hold a seminar at my church about Islam?


#8

We know we have the Truth in Catholicism.

If we spread the Truth around to others and pray for them, the Holy Spirit will do it’s job and help those who believe in Islam to convert.

Sorry but I just don’t understand one religion holding seminars about another.


#9

Guess we better stop the ecumenical movement Kellie.

Cause basically that is all it is really. In the Catholic Church that is all it means really. We dont change anything no matter how much dialoge goes on.


#10

Wait until you’re forced to wear the burqa

You can find out about Islam. People tend to have seminars in order to learn.

Of course you could go to an Islamic one, but then you’d only get one perspective. Perhaps one perspective is all you require to make up your mind?


#11

Good for you. I’m Orthodox. I know I have the truth in Orthodoxy

Seems to be working

It’s called trying to learn


#12

Perhaps to let you know that Islam’s teachings ARE a threat to you.


#13

If someone wants to hold a class on how terrible the Catholic Church is, I wouldn’t want them to get arrested. That’s ridiculous. The whole idea of free speech is allowing speech you don’t agree with. There’s alot of critisism of Islam here, how would you like it if the government shut down this site because people started threads complaining about Moslems?


#14

That’s a very intelligent point. What the court on appeal ruled was that it is the realm of religions to disagree with other religions. There’s nothing wrong with holding a seminar to discuss this.

Except if you’re a Moslem. Islam is about complaining that any ‘talk’ on Islam is nothing but insults


#15

Why, thank you :tiphat: You are a person with excellent perception!


#16

Their teachings aren’t a threat to my Faith.

Their teachings aren’t a threat to my love of Catholicism.

Their teachings aren’t a threat to my love of Jesus, Mary and all the Saints.

Some of their teachings or extremism may be a threat to my life, such as terrorism, but I consider that a criminal threat, same as some other people are a threat to me criminally.

Islam is not a religious threat to me.


#17

I think you should watch the movie Pope John Paul II. Their teachings may not be a threat to your faith, but it may be a threat someday to your ability to practice your faith.


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