Islam = violence


#1

A question for the Muslims or anyone who knows. If Islam is so peaceful why is there so much violence in muslim countries?
Why is Islam promoted as a peaceful religion?


#2

Islam divides the world in two… the world of Islam and the world of war. Anything that is not in the world of Islam it at war with Islam.

The Islamic laws that are peaceful mostly apply to other Muslims. There are entirely different laws in when it comes to dealing with non-Muslims.


#3

The source for the following is:
masud.co.uk/ISLAM/nuh/reliance.htm

Here are scans of the pages from the book showing the below law…
s209.photobucket.com/albums/bb98/eFatima/

O9.0 JIHAD

(O: Jihad means to war against non-Muslims and is etymologically derived from the word mujahada, signifying warfare to establish the religion. And it is the lesser jihad. As for the greater jihad, it is spiritual warfare against the lower self (nafs), which is why the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) said as he was returning from jihad.

The scriptural basis for jihad, prior to scholarly consensus is such Koranic verses as:

(1)“Fighting is prescribed for you” (Koran 2:216)
(2)“Slay them wherever you find them” (Koran 4:89)
(3)“Fight the idolaters utterly” (Koran 9:36);

and such Hadiths as the one related by Bukhari and Muslim that the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) said:

“I have been commanded to fight people until they testify that there is no god but Allah and Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and perform the prayer, and pay zakat . If they say it, they have saved their blood and possessions from me, except from the rights of Islam over them. And their final reckoning is with Allah”;

and the hadith reported by Muslim,

“To go forth in the morning or evening to fight in the path of Allah is better than the whole world and everything in it.”

09.1 Jihad is a communal obligation.

O9.6 It is offensive to conduct a military expedition against hostile non-Mulims without the caliph’s permission. (A: Though if there I s no caliph, no permission is required).

WHO IS OBLIGATED TO FIGHT IN JIHAD

O9.4 Those called upon (o: to perform jihad when it is a communical obligation) are every able-bodied man who has reached puberty and is sane.

(continued below)


#4

(continued from above)

“o9.8 The caliph makes war upon Jews, Christians, and Zoroastrians (N: Provided he has first invited them to enter Islam in faith and practice, and if they will not, then invited them to enter the social order of Islam by paying the non-Muslim poll tax (jizya) – which is the significance of their paying it, not the money itself- while remaining in their ancestral regions. (O: and the war continues) until they become Muslim or pay the non-Muslim poll tax. (O: in accordance with the word of Allah Most High,

“Fight those who do not believe in Allah and the Last Day and who forbid not what Allah and His messenger have forbidden-who do not practice the religion of truth, being of those who have been given the Book-until they pay the poll tax out hand and are humbled.” (Koran 9:29),

the time and place for which is before the final descent of Jesus (upon who m be peace). After his coming, nothing but Islam will be accepted from them, for taking the poll tax is only effective until Jesus’ decent (upon him and our Prophet be peace), which is the divinely revealed law of Muhammad. The coming of Jesus does not entail a separate divinely revealed law, for he will rule by the law of Muhammad. As for the Prophet’s saying (Allah bless him and give him peace)).

O9.9 the caliph fights all other peoples until they become Muslim (O: because they are not a people with a Book, nor honored as such, and are not permitted to settle with paying the poll tax (jizya)) (n: though according to the Hanafi school, people of all other religions, even idol worshipers, are permitted to live under the protection of the Islamic state if they either become Muslim or agree to pay the poll tax, the exceptions to which are apostates from Islam and idol worshipers who are Arabs, neither of whom has any choice but becoming Muslim.

O9.13 When a child or a woman is taken captive, they become salves by the fact of capture, and the woman’s previous marriage is immediately annulled.


#5

I think that both Chesterton and Belloc noted that Islam is characterized by bloody borders.


#6

Hi

The West, as I understand, due to certain disinformation has seen only MullahIslam or MullahShariah; the true face of peaceful and human loving Muhammad and his religion Islam and Islam of PromisedMessiahImamMahdi is yet hidden from their eyes, which is truly speaking moral and peaceful.

The first forty years i.e. before Muhammad was appointed ProphetMessenger by GodAllahYHWH has been offered as a reasonable argument/challenge in Quran before Nonbelievers-of-Mecca, and they could not deny its truthfulness

Muhammad had a marvelous record of a peace loving person for 40+13+2=55 years, he joined in welfare activities if there was any in Mecca, he helped the needy and in distress, he stood for the human cause, he never harmed any person. His record in these 55 years is clean by any standards.
Thanks


#7

Although we don’t get this in our western media, the term “jihad” means “struggle”, a struggle that can be understood at several different levels.

In all fairness, the same question could be aimed at the Christian west-“if Christianity is so peaceful, why has the been so much violence in the Christian west?” As Chesterton wrote, “Christianity has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried.” The problem is not so much in the religion as in its “adherents”.


#8

Hi
I agree with you that the problem is not so much in the religion as in its “adherents”.With peaceful dialogue the differences could be resolved.
Thanks


#9

Dialogue is wonderful. It may be true that many, if not all, problems can be solved that way, when there are 2 sides that are truly willing to dialogue and reach a solution.

But the essential components in problems that exist between 2 people or 2 religions or 2 political systems or 2 countries, or 2 WHATEVER IT IS ~ is that both parties WANT to conduct such dialogue in GOOD FAITH.

WANTING to dialogue has been missing lately, as well as GOOD FAITH. Persons have gone to talk with Islamic extremists and had their heads cut off. That pretty much ends any kind of dialogue. And it shows total lack of “good faith” in the process.

Are all Muslims in the world like this? I don’t think so. Do any peaceful Muslims object to the “beheading” style of diplomacy? I haven’t heard any public objections, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t any. Still, the lack of vociferous public outcry is enough to give me pause.

To reiterate, fruitful dialogue can only occur between two willing partners, both acting in good faith with a common goal to arrive at a negotiated solution. The extremists in the Muslim world have shown no sign that they are even interested in such dialogue. Hence, there is no basis for anyone to attempt to engage them in such dialogue unless and until they demonstrate their readiness. Anything less is a form of suicide.

Those that want to “talk peace” to Al Qaeda should put their “money where their mouth is” and volunteer to do the talking. Maybe if their own head was, literally, on the line, they might think their position through a bit more?


#10

Hi
Not all people in the Muslim countries are extremist, or support the extremist.
The present strife mostly is between those diplomats/rulers who want to occupy the natural resources and those who won’t let them do.
Leaving that aside, there are large people on both sides who are peaceful and a fruitful dialogue betwee them is possible. This is to be explored.
Thanks


#11

You know those peaceful verses Muslims quote to show how they are a religion of peace? There is something they don’t mention. Those verses are null and void:

The Abrogation of the Peaceful Suras (Medina Period - When Muhammed had no power or influence) in the Quran by the Violent Suras (Mecca Period - When Muhammed had forces and power):

islamreview.com/articles/quransdoctrine.shtml


#12

Hi
There is not a single verse in Quran that has been agrogated, not to speak of a whole Surah/Chapter.
Please know the true concept reading the topic “Misconceptions about the Holy Quran” by accessing:
alislam.org/books/invitation/arg5.html
Thanks


#13

It’s all spelled out here:

muhammadanism.org/Quran/abrogation_koran.pdf


#14

Yes, Islam = violence.

One can see that from the actions of the founder, Muhammad. Islam was born of violence. Muhammad ordered/took part in over 60 battles/raids. Only one was in his home. The rest were in someone else’s home (with one in neutral territory).

Yes, Islam = violence.

One can see that from the teachings in the Quran. “Kill the disbelievers wherever you find them” is not peaceful. I don’t find it peaceful. Only Muslims find that peaceful.

Yes, Islam = violence.
It has the tenet of “Jihad”. Oh… don’t give the excuse that Jihad means struggle and can mean ‘peaceful internal struggle.’. This not what concerns us kuffar.

When Jihad is used in relation to disbelievers it is always violence. When Jihad is used in relation to an individual Muslim (doing Jihad to himself) it is peaceful.

But since the latter does not concern us, while the former does - we must ignore the latter.


#15

Many Muslim scholars believe that many verses of the Qur’an have been abrogated. IT is mostly the ‘peaceful’ ones they believe have been abrogated. For example the one of ‘no compulsion’ in religion is one they believe is abrogated.

But whether or not you believe they are abrogated or simply expanded upon makes little diffence. Because for example, without abrogation one can believe that there is no compulsion in religion. But that Muslims have the right to violent jihad in which they offer choices… conversion, subjucation under islamic rule or death. See this means the people have a choice… they can convert, keep their religion and live as second class citizens under Islam, or they can accept being killed.

Another point is that under the no compulsion in religion a person is free to choose to leave Islam, to be an apostate. But of course if they choose this path of their own free will they will be executed. But they had the freedom to choose and then the authorities had the right to kill them.

So basically Islam does have no compulsion in religon. It’s just that the outcome of exercising this freedom could cost a person their freedom or thier head. See no abrogation but still totally unacceptable to non-Muslims and any Muslim who leaves Islam. :eek:


#16

The reason Islam = Violence is because Mohammad is the messenger of Satan.


#17

Islam operates in “theocracy”, there is no distinction between “church” and “state”. Islamic countries are ruled by Islamic law.

When Christianity “ruled” Europe, violence against those who differed with them happened quite a bit. Crusades, Inquisition and some of the “holy wars” wouldn’t to modern eyes make Christianity a very “peaceful” religion. The indiginous people of North and South America wouldn’t think Christians were too…“peaceful” either.

IMO, Islam has yet to reach the place in world society where Christianity is now…they are about 600 years behind…Islam is yet to have it’s “Reformation”.

This is simplistic for sure, but I think it has merit.


#18

Hi
I quite agree with you. The reformation of Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism etc, etc has been started with the advent of the Divine Guide PromisedMessiahImamMahdi 1835-1908, a peaceful advent with reason , rationality, arguments and dialogue.He belongs to every revealed religion, though he has come in Islam to reform it in the first place.
Thanks

The first and primary source on “Jesus did not die on Cross” and later died naturally is the pristine Word of God revealed on the PromisedMessiahImamMahdi 1835-1908.


#19

We agree in principle…Islam is yet to face it’s “reformation”…but we disagree with the particulars.


#20

Well, not so’s you can tell, since Muslims mostly kill other Muslims and don’t seem to worry too much about doing it.


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