Islamic government?


#1

I have heard many Muslim’s here state that there is no government on earth today that is Islamic. I have also heard Muslim’s state that Shar’ia law is, in fact, the laws of Islam.

My question then is this:

If a government enforces Shar’ia law, isn’t it then an Islamic government?


#2

[quote=iamrefreshed]I have heard many Muslim’s here state that there is no government on earth today that is Islamic. I have also heard Muslim’s state that Shar’ia law is, in fact, the laws of Islam.

My question then is this:

If a government enforces Shar’ia law, isn’t it then an Islamic government?
[/quote]

Hello Iamrefreshed, I know you said you don’t want to talk to me anymore, however I hope you don’t mind if I answer your question. An Islamic government is a goverment that establishes Islamic laws completely and in the correct manner. For example they can’t apply the laws on the poor and not the rich. It must establish them in the correct way and complete way.


#3

[quote=Emad]Hello Iamrefreshed, I know you said you don’t want to talk to me anymore, however I hope you don’t mind if I answer your question. An Islamic government is a goverment that establishes Islamic laws completely and in the correct manner. For example they can’t apply the laws on the poor and not the rich. It must establish them in the correct way and complete way.
[/quote]

I spoke in anger Emad. Please forgive me. We obviously disagree strongly on the issue and that is fine. Best not to discuss it again.

Where can I obtain the information you used to give me your answer to my question?


#4

[quote=iamrefreshed]I spoke in anger Emad. Please forgive me. We obviously disagree strongly on the issue and that is fine. Best not to discuss it again.

Where can I obtain the information you used to give me your answer to my question?
[/quote]

Forgiven ofcourse! I don’t understand what you mean by your question, please clarify.

:slight_smile:


#5

[quote=Emad]Forgiven ofcourse! I don’t understand what you mean by your question, please clarify.

:slight_smile:
[/quote]

You answered my original question. I am asking you where you obtained the answer.


#6

[quote=iamrefreshed]You answered my original question. I am asking you where you obtained the answer.
[/quote]

From the life of the Prophet peace be upon him and from the Quran. Allah says that judgment and ruling is only to Him.

12.40
"If not Him, ye worship nothing but names which ye have named,- ye and your fathers,- for which Allah hath sent down no authority: the ruling is for none but Allah: He hath commanded that ye worship none but Him: that is the right religion, but most men understand not…

24: 47-52
4: 59-65

I can cite more verses if you want.


#7

[quote=Emad]From the life of the Prophet peace be upon him and from the Quran. Allah says that judgment and ruling is only to Him.

12.40
"If not Him, ye worship nothing but names which ye have named,- ye and your fathers,- for which Allah hath sent down no authority: the ruling is for none but Allah: He hath commanded that ye worship none but Him: that is the right religion, but most men understand not…

24: 47-52
4: 59-65

I can cite more verses if you want.
[/quote]

Let me see if I can make myself clearer that I have thus far.

In Nigeria, 12 of the northern states live under Shar’iah law. I have been told that there is no where on earth is Islamic law practiced. If these 12 states of Nigeria are practicing Shar’iah, how is it that they are not living under Islamic law?


#8

[quote=iamrefreshed]Let me see if I can make myself clearer that I have thus far.

In Nigeria, 12 of the northern states live under Shar’iah law. I have been told that there is no where on earth is Islamic law practiced. If these 12 states of Nigeria are practicing Shar’iah, how is it that they are not living under Islamic law?
[/quote]

These states don’t practice Islamic law fully. It is more like a name like Saudi Arabia. For example in Saudi Arabia a poor thief will be punished, but the rich and rulers can get away with anything. The goverment has to be elected according to Islamic law and it has to be run completely according to Islam. I believe the last Islamic goverment was the Ottaman Empire.


#9

[quote=Emad]These states don’t practice Islamic law fully. It is more like a name like Saudi Arabia. For example in Saudi Arabia a poor thief will be punished, but the rich and rulers can get away with anything. The goverment has to be elected according to Islamic law and it has to be run completely according to Islam. I believe the last Islamic goverment was the Ottaman Empire.
[/quote]

OK, I understand… I think:confused: . I don’t know how you come to your conclusions without a governing body, but, that is something I am learning is lacking in Islam.

I think that is the fundamental problem in Islam. Way too much flexibility on what is authentic and what is not. Everyone seems to interpret the Qur’an and Hadith to suit themselves.

Someone brought up, in another thread, the need for a central authority in Islam. I think that would help tremendously.


#10

[quote=iamrefreshed]OK, I understand… I think:confused: . I don’t know how you come to your conclusions without a governing body, but, that is something I am learning is lacking in Islam.

I think that is the fundamental problem in Islam. Way too much flexibility on what is authentic and what is not. Everyone seems to interpret the Qur’an and Hadith to suit themselves.

Someone brought up, in another thread, the need for a central authority in Islam. I think that would help tremendously.
[/quote]

Iamrefreshed it is common sense. For example a democracy isn’t a democracy if it is ruled by a dictator. America also implements many aspects of an Islamic state, however it is not one. For example no dictatorship, no abortion, gay marriage, no drugs, punishes murderers and thieves etc. An Islamic state is a state that has the Quran and Sunnah as its constitution and nothing else.


#11

[quote=Emad]Iamrefreshed it is common sense. For example a democracy isn’t a democracy if it is ruled by a dictator. America also implements many aspects of an Islamic state, however it is not one. For example no dictatorship, no abortion, gay marriage, no drugs, punishes murderers and thieves etc. An Islamic state is a state that has the Quran and Sunnah as its constitution and nothing else.
[/quote]

Yes but according to the people living under Shar’ia and the governments enforcing it they are Muslim states. I’m talking about over 50 million people in Nigeria and 26 million in Saudi Arabia. That’s 76 million in just those two countries claiming to be living under Islamic government.

Why should I not believe what they say?


#12

[quote=iamrefreshed]I have been told that there is no where on earth is Islamic law practiced.
[/quote]

if what the person meant that the sharee’ah being impletemented completely, then yes, he/she is correct. otherwise, what you’ve been told is not true. there are muslim countries around the world that implement portions of the sharee’ah here and there, some more than others. from the countries i know of, saudi arabia implements more of the sharee’ah than other countries. anyone who denies that either is ignorant of the laws saudi implements or they’re ignorant of the sharee’ah.


#13

[quote=r.gonzales]if what the person meant that the sharee’ah being impletemented completely, then yes, he/she is correct. otherwise, what you’ve been told is not true. there are muslim countries around the world that implement portions of the sharee’ah here and there, some more than others. from the countries i know of, saudi arabia implements more of the sharee’ah than other countries. anyone who denies that either is ignorant of the laws saudi implements or they’re ignorant of the sharee’ah.

[/quote]

It has been told to me on this forum by Faith101, Emad and Fatuma, all Muslim’s.


#14

[quote=iamrefreshed]It has been told to me on this forum by Faith101, Emad and Fatuma, all Muslim’s.
[/quote]

they’re not all muslims.


#15

[quote=r.gonzales]they’re not all muslims.
[/quote]

Which one of us is not Muslim?


#16

[quote=Emad]Which one of us is not Muslim?
[/quote]

you misunderstand what i wrote. what i meant was that you don’t equal “all muslims” as he/she said that he/she was told this by “all muslims”. not all muslims believe that “there is no place on earth that islamic law is practiced”

sorry for any confusion.


#17

please, please, please NEVER EVER mention saudi arabia as a good example of an Islamic government.

It is very important that we dont even imply that they are anything close to an Islamic government and avoid all talk that could make someone think that.

Whether or not the Saudis enforce MORE of the sharia law is irrelevant, since they implement so many exaggerations and shortcomings in addition to the blatantly unislamic that they have become the posterboy of sexism and racism across the world.

Ive heard stories about somalis moving to Saudi, never heard one about someone getting treated like a brother in Islam and getting a good job.

If you aren’t saudi and you work there you wont get payed like a saudi, if youre a woman you can feel good in the backseat of the car, and if youre not arab good luck.


#18

[quote=r.gonzales]you misunderstand what i wrote. what i meant was that you don’t equal “all muslims” as he/she said that he/she was told this by “all muslims”. not all muslims believe that “there is no place on earth that islamic law is practiced”

sorry for any confusion.

[/quote]

I dont think theres anywhere, because if there was then the whole world would be looking to see how this pinnacle of society is being ran.


#19

[quote=Eetaq]please, please, please NEVER EVER mention saudi arabia as a good example of an Islamic government.

It is very important that we dont even imply that they are anything close to an Islamic government and avoid all talk that could make someone think that.

Whether or not the Saudis enforce MORE of the sharia law is irrelevant, since they implement so many exaggerations and shortcomings in addition to the blatantly unislamic that they have become the posterboy of sexism and racism across the world.

Ive heard stories about somalis moving to Saudi, never heard one about someone getting treated like a brother in Islam and getting a good job.

If you aren’t saudi and you work there you wont get payed like a saudi, if youre a woman you can feel good in the backseat of the car, and if youre not arab good luck.
[/quote]

brother eetaq, as muslims we are required to be just in all our affairs.

although saudi arabia’s government has many faults and many shortcomings with respect to what’s out there today, they are by far better than others - that is in spite of all the corruption and additions/subtractions they’ve made to the sharee’ah. that is in spite of all the nationalism and racism that exists amongst its people.

i am speaking in relative terms brother, not absolute. you cannot deny that some aspects of the sharee’ah are being implemented in saudi and in other countries. so to say that there is no sharee’ah being practiced anywhere in the world is exaggeration and unjust to those countries that do have aspects of it implemented.

maybe you should read what the late ash-shaikh muqbil bin haadee al-waadi’ee said about the country after visiting it for the first time since his exile. he used to speak ill of saudi arabia until this last visit of his. you can read his testimony here (it’s a pdf, so you’ll need acrobat reader).


#20

[quote=r.gonzales]brother eetaq, as muslims we are required to be just in all our affairs.

although saudi arabia’s government has many faults and many shortcomings with respect to what’s out there today, they are by far better than others - that is in spite of all the corruption and additions/subtractions they’ve made to the sharee’ah. that is in spite of all the nationalism and racism that exists amongst its people.

i am speaking in relative terms brother, not absolute. you cannot deny that some aspects of the sharee’ah are being implemented in saudi and in other countries. so to say that there is no sharee’ah being practiced anywhere in the world is exaggeration and unjust to those countries that do have aspects of it implemented.

maybe you should read what the late ash-shaikh muqbil bin haadee al-waadi’ee said about the country after visiting it for the first time since his exile. he used to speak ill of saudi arabia until this last visit of his. you can read his testimony here (it’s a pdf, so you’ll need acrobat reader).

[/quote]

I still do not understand how it is that millions and millions of people claim to live under Islamic law and 3 or 4 Muslim’s here tell me they do not. Here are just a few and they encompass over 200 million Muslim’s claiming to live under some form of Islamic law:

Nigeria
Yemen
Algeria
Bahrain
Iran
Maldives
Somalia
Saudia Arabia

Why are these 200 million people wrong but the posters here correct?


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