Islamic Multiculturalism - The Endless Jihad


#1

This may be my last post on these forums for a while. It seems that anyone who does not subscribe to the PC mantra that Islam is a religion of peace, is immediately branded as a hatemonger, even by other Catholics! I know I will probably be burned at the stake, at least in effigy for this, but here goes. I post articles like this simply because I believe that we need to know the true agenda of Islam.

If anyone is interested in reading the complete article by ex-Muslim Abul Kasem, here is the link.

Here are some of the topics covered in the article:

Allah is the owner of Infidel lands.
.
Allah gradually reduces the land controlled by the unbelievers…21.44
This means the victory of Islam by expropriating and usurping the land of unbelievers. Ibn Kathir, the eminent exegete of the Qur’an simply confirms this. Jalalyn, another formidable Islamic scholar accentuates ibn Kathir by saying that Allah diminishes the land of the unbelievers by granting Muhammad (read Muslims) victory through conquest. One of the earliest Islamic scholars, ibn Abbas (Muhammad’s cousin) also writes that Allah seizes the land of the unbelievers by conquering it for Muhammad.

Islamic freedom of expression means the right to call the infidels dogs and beasts.

Muslims are the legitimate owners and rulers of Infidel lands.

When the Islamists migrate to an infidel land, they do not enter a foreign land. They are actually occupying a land which Allah has reserved for them. Any Islamist will tell that the entire earth belongs to Allah. Therefore, every Muslim has the inalienable right to move to an infidel land and occupy it for the sake of Allah.

Islamic religious freedom means the right to terrorize the Kafirs.

Allah has sent terror in the hearts of the unbelievers…59:13

Ibn Kathir writes that Islam is a religion of fear, Muslims are fearsome, and that’s why the believers are stronger. Ibn Kathir even goes to the extent to declare that the unbelievers fear Muslims more than they fear Allah.

Religious right means freedom to force Islam on infidels.

In Islam, it is compulsory for all Muslims to propagate the messages of Islam, wherever he/she might be. Thus, when an Islamist migrates to an infidel land, he is duty bound to Allah to convert the Kafirs’ to Islam, as many as possible. This is because Allah says that the only religion that should be on earth is Islam.

cont.


#2

cont.

Freedom to enforce Islamic Sharia, including Islamic banking, Islamic insurance (Takaful) and Islamic family and penal (Hudud) laws.

From media we learn how assiduously the Islamists are fighting around the globe to establish Islamic rules in every sphere of human activity. From Canada, to Britain, to Australia, the USA, France, the Netherlands, Denmark, and in virtually every infidel land, they are pursuing their agenda doggedly. What they might not achieve through Islamic terrorism, they will accomplish them through the political lobbying. This is far more dangerous than the Islamic terrorism.

Right to extract jizya from the Infidels.

The Qur’an (9:23) commands the Islamic rulers to impose jizya tax on the non Muslims. Islamist apologists residing in infidel lands often justify this poll tax as a revenue measure in conformity with the zakat for the Muslims. The Qur’an’s says this punitive tax system is to humiliate the non Muslims and not to raise revenue only.

Here is a short list of other aspects of Islamic Multiculturalism.

Freedom to have Islamic free sex with infidel women (infidel women are nothing more than Islamic sex slaves).
Forcing fast food outlets to serve halal food, or to have a halal section.
Intimidating manufacturers to abandon gelatine in certain Islamic food.
Freedom to build a mosque in every suburb of Kafir land.
Petition council to close down mixed sex physical fitness centres, because the Islamists are living in the neighbourhood.
The right to open sex segregated Islamic physical fitness centres.
The right to force authority to close down mixed sex swimming pools.
Freedom to practice religion: lobby to establish Islamic marriage laws, the right to have four wives at any time.
Freedom to practice religion: the right to beat one’s wife/s.
Religious freedom: the right to preach jihadi messages to murder infidels.
Right to take legal actions against anyone who quotes the murderous verses of the Qur’an.
Lobbying parliamentarians to pass religious vilification act (for Islam only).
Islamic bigotry is Islamic tolerance.
Islamic terrorism is the creation of Kafirs; Kafirs must work hard to win the hearts and minds of Muslims.
Right to vilify other religion (it is there in the Qur’an).
Right to threaten to kill those who criticise Islam.

Conclusion

As we might note, there is no end to Islamists demands. It is a culture of Islam, that once it gets a millimetre, it demands a kilometre. Muhammad did the same to increase his power and wealth. The Islamists simply follow Muhammad’s footsteps. As written previously, despite the infidel government’s sincere efforts to integrate the Islamic community in the mainstream multiculturalism, they have been failures. Where other ethnic/religious communities have successfully integrated with the multicultural society of the host country, the Islamic community have never done so. The reason why it is so is very simple: Islam cannot mix with un Islam. All policy makers must take heed to this simple message. No matter how the infidels try, all ‘dialogues’, including interfaith, will be dismal failures when it comes to Islam. If we have diligently read the Qur’anic verses quoted above, we should understand that the concept of ‘interfaith’ does not exist in Islamic vocabulary. In the Islamic world, there is only one faith in the world—it is Islam, so interfaith dialogue with Islam is just impossible. Islamic Multiculturalism means the acceptance of Islamic and Arab supremacy.

Vickie


#3

You can cut the drama out; we know you are not going anywhere.

You are spreading misinformation and ignorance with your constant copy and pasting of articles. How can you constantly blast islam by what a few civil war torn countries are doing?
You are judging all the muslims based on what these fanatics do.
I am no less catholic because I dont believe the fanatical media stories that tend to slant in our favor.
I will continue to think for my self and not judge all Muslims based on what a few thugs do. And I wont judge this site for what a few misinformed people do.


#4

Willma, im not being a smarty or anything when i say this, but i really recommend you go spend one week in a country like saudi arabia, and then come back and give us comments on Islam then.
You will see what Islam truly is and when it stands for.


#5

Do you similarly recommend I go to medieval Spain and proclaim my apostasy in the city squares in order to get a feel for what Catholicism is really like?


#6

Wilma,
I don’t see why you’re so keen on cultural/religious suicide.

What Vickie has posted is true. I have lived in a couple of Islamic states and can personally testify to their veracity. Muslims do teach hatred and violence against disbelievers. They really do believe that the entire earth belongs to Allah and hence to Muslims.

I have lived in Muslim countries and can tell you the stories are NOT slanted in your favour. Quite the opposite - most of the horrible stuff is just not reported in the Western media. What you get in is only a fraction of what goes on.

Someone made a point that only in Islam is there teaching (yes, from the Quran - from Muhammad himself) to hate disbelievers with such vehemence. The Muslims really do hate disbelievers - even the ‘moderate’ ones. How can you not hate disbelievers when you truly believe that your god told you to:

do not make friends with Christians or Jews for they are friends to each other. They seek to make you like them so do not take them for friends, unless they emigrate in the way of Allah (i.e. become Muslims). And if they turn away (i.e. apostacize) then seize and kill them whever you find them.

Unless they seek refuge in a country that has a peace treaty with Muslims, or if they run away and promise to not attack you.

Now - that is what the Muslims believe is a commandment from Allah. I know you want to believe the best in people (you don’t even know) but some people are just taught hatred all their lives.

How about this verse?

Kill all who do not believe in Allah or the Last Day, unless they are People of the Book who agree to pay the Jizyah with humiliation.

==> This is the verse that permits the Muslims to persecute you and kill people of non-Abrahamic faiths.

That is surely not very nice, is it? Yet, muslims believe this with all their heart. After all, it is a direct commandment from their god.


#7

You don’t need to go to medieval Spain. You can do it in Mecca today.

Come to think of you - you can’t because as a disbeliver you would be beheaded if you set foot in Mecca. In the 21st century.

The hatred of disbelievers is taught TODAY in mosques all over the world TODAY. Why compare with Medieval Christianity?


#8

Exodus 23:31-33: I will set your boundaries from the Red Sea to the sea of the Philistines, and from the desert to the River; all who dwell in this land I will hand over to you to be driven out of your way. You shall not make a covenant with them or their gods. They must not abide in your land, lest they make you sin against me by ensnaring you into worshiping their gods.

2 Corinthians 6:14: Do not be yoked with those who are different, with unbelievers. For what partnership do righteousness and lawlessness have? Or what fellowship does light have with darkness?

Not very nice, you say?

You don’t need to go to medieval Spain. You can do it in Mecca today.

I know. I can also tell you right here right now that I don’t believe and hopefully not be beheaded for it just as I can tell that to paarsurrey or Kadaveri or any of the other Muslims posting here. In fact, I’ve noticed I tend to be more accepted by and get along better with most of the Muslims here than many of the Catholics!

The hatred of disbelievers is taught TODAY in mosques all over the world TODAY. Why compare with Medieval Christianity?

Hatred of disbelievers is being taught in this very thread, too; I forgot. However, it is fortunately not institutionalized as it is in the governments of Saudi Arabia or Iran or medieval Spain. The modern Islamic governments have, perhaps, more in common with the Christian governments of past Europe than you’d like. Not only is it unloving and unChristian to proclaim a religion evil and hateful because of the actions of extremists, it’s a fine case of forgetting your religion had a tree lodged in its own eye, and perhaps missing the plank still there in yours.


#9

Oh no, not the OT again.

I have also been to church and know that few if any priests invoke those sorts of verses to tell Christians to hate disbelievers.

[quote=mirdath’]I know. I can also tell you right here right now that I don’t believe and hopefully not be beheaded for it just as I can tell that to paarsurrey or Kadaveri or any of the other Muslims posting here. In fact, I’ve noticed I tend to be more accepted by and get along better with most of the Muslims here than many of the Catholics!
[/quote]

Sure since you defend their right to oppress non-Muslims.

I would much rather tell the truth than pander to people who believe that killing or oppressing me is a holy act commanded by their god. Call me strange but I believe truthfulness is a virtue. appeasement is a proven failure.

[quote=mirdath]Hatred of disbelievers is being taught in this very thread, too; I forgot. However, it is fortunately not institutionalized as it is in the governments of Saudi Arabia or Iran or medieval Spain. The modern Islamic governments have, perhaps, more in common with the Christian governments of past Europe than you’d like. Not only is it unloving and unChristian to proclaim a religion evil and hateful because of the actions of extremists, it’s a fine case of forgetting your religion had a tree lodged in its own eye, and perhaps missing the plank still there in yours.
[/quote]

What plank in my eye?

Is the Church TODAY teaching Christians to hate Muslims? No. I think the pope is bending out of his way to appease Muslims.

Oh… and please not the OT again. I have never heard a priest use the OT to tell his congregation to hate disbelievers.

If you are a Christian then you should know that your Lord Jesus Christ told you to love your fellow man. He didn’t say to kill all disbelievers like Muhammad did.

If you are a Christian then you should know that your Lord Jesus Christ told you to Jihad and behead disbelievers.

Those kinds of ‘jihadist’ teachings are not something modern thought up by political imams, you know. Those teachings are right in the Quran, unlike the OT (which Christians do not follow closely).

They are direct invocations from Allah to persecute and kill disbelievers. Muslims believe these commandments because they are from God and have not been abrogated. In fact, the last thing their god told them (through Muhammad) was to kill and persecute you (if you are a Christian).

Surah 9 (containing the verses of the sword) was the last word of Allah.

So you shouldn’t be comparing Medieval Christianity with modern Islam. After all, none of us live in Medieval times. We live today. If Islamic teachings are barbaric today and Christian teachings are not - that is the valid comparison.

Oh… you obviously have no problems with Muslims beheading you if you step into Mecca because their prophet told them to do so. That’s mighty Christian of you. Perhaps you might want to demonstrate your Christian ‘love for peace and goodwill to all man’ kind of thing in Mecca. I’m sure Khalfan, paarsurrey and the other Muslims would appreciate your solidarity with their religion.


#10

Unless you’re using an extremely odd edition of the bible, I doubt the second epistle to the Corinthians is in the Old Testament.

Sure since you defend their right to oppress non-Muslims.

I don’t defend that, just as I don’t defend your or anyone else’s ‘right’ to oppress and slander non-Christians.

What plank in my eye?

You’re upset over verses in the Quran that say almost exactly the same thing as verses found in your own holy book. Most Christians don’t rigorously follow that part of the old law, and most Muslims don’t rigorously follow that part of the Quran.

Is the Church TODAY teaching Christians to hate Muslims? No. I think the pope is bending out of his way to appease Muslims.

And to that I say good for Benedict, even though he’s made a few slipups! I only wish so many of his followers were minded to, ah, follow.

If you are a Christian then you should know that your Lord Jesus Christ told you to love your fellow man. He didn’t say to kill all disbelievers like Muhammad did.

Those kinds of ‘jihadist’ teachings are not something modern thought up by political imams, you know. Those teachings are right in the Quran, unlike the OT (which Christians do not follow closely).

Mhm. The old law has a different take on the matter, punishing blasphemy and apostasy with death. Yet you say ‘no OT, please, we don’t believe that anymore’! If that’s so, why is it still in your bible? Why do you consider it the inspired word of God, if you do not believe and follow? Either you’re a bad follower or you’re holding Muslims to a different standard than you do yourself.

And what of the Jews? They don’t think the old law has been fulfilled and is no longer required, yet they generally don’t run around stoning people. So too with most Muslims.

Oh… you obviously have no problems with Muslims beheading you if you step into Mecca because their prophet told them to do so. That’s mighty Christian of you. Perhaps you might want to demonstrate your Christian ‘love for peace and goodwill to all man’ kind of thing in Mecca. I’m sure Khalfan, paarsurrey and the other Muslims would appreciate your solidarity with their religion.

I have been told before that I would make an excellent Christian, but this is the first time I have been told that I am a better Christian than most even though I do not believe.

I do not have any plans to vacation in Saudi Arabia any time soon, and I hope eventually Mecca is opened up; but it doesn’t seem likely to happen in the very near future while the country is still under an extreme fundamentalist government. This is not a problem with the religion, but with the civil authority.


#11

Thanks for your comments. They bring interesting points we all need to remember.

I must admit that I am about as ignorant of Islam and Islamic culture as one can be. I’ve done a little reading on the subject, but most of my info comes from American media. So I am ignorant.

Which countries or cultures reflect the best of what Islam has to offer?


#12

You’re welcome :slight_smile:

Which countries or cultures reflect the best of what Islam has to offer?

I’d start with the Golden Age under the reign of the caliph Haroun al-Rashid. There’s quite a lot, really – Islamic cultures founded the first modern universities (a couple of them are still operating!), sponsored revolutions in art and science, brought Indian numerals and Egyptian proto-chemistry across to Europe, and generally have done a whole lot of good both for themselves and for the rest of the world. And yes, there’s been evil done as well, but what branch of humanity has done no evil?


#13

Actually I was referring to exodus since I didn’t find Corinthians all that bad. It certainly doesn’t tell a Christian to seize and kill disbelievers wherever you find them.

I don’t defend that, just as I don’t defend your or anyone else’s ‘right’ to oppress and slander non-Christians.

How have I oppressed anyone? By telling the truth, however unpalatable it is? If something is bad do you expect to say it’s good?

How have I slandered non-Christians? By quoting the Quran and telling the truth about what Imams really teach in mosques to Muslims?

Slander means telling an untruth to hurt someone. So far I haven’t told an untruth at all. Check out the Quran if you don’t believe me.

You’re upset over verses in the Quran that say almost exactly the same thing as verses found in your own holy book. Most Christians don’t rigorously follow that part of the old law, and most Muslims don’t rigorously follow that part of the Quran.

Those parts in the OT are abrogated, my friend. Unfortunately the ‘hate/kill disbelievers’ verses in the Quran are not.

I know most Muslims don’t go out and kill disbelievers - but they don’t have a problem with persecuting them do they? They don’t have a problem with the Saudis beheading a disbeliever who ventures into Mecca do they?

Also, a ‘moderate’ Muslim can turn into a ‘jihadist’ at the drop of a hat. How do you tell a moderate Muslim from a jihadist? They listen to the same teachings from the same Imams and read the same verses from the same Quran. One has the conviction to follow his god’s commandment and the other still has some semblence of humanity left in him to ignore those verses for now.

And to that I say good for Benedict, even though he’s made a few slipups! I only wish so many of his followers were minded to, ah, follow.

He also told the truth about Islamic violence, didn’t he? And look what happened? The Muslims went and proved him right.

Mhm. The old law has a different take on the matter, punishing blasphemy and apostasy with death. Yet you say ‘no OT, please, we don’t believe that anymore’! If that’s so, why is it still in your bible? Why do you consider it the inspired word of God, if you do not believe and follow? Either you’re a bad follower or you’re holding Muslims to a different standard than you do yourself.

You’re not a Christian, are you? If you were you’d know Christians don’t punish blasphemy or apostacy oh… for a couple of hundred years give or take.

But Muslims still do that today.

And what of the Jews? They don’t think the old law has been fulfilled and is no longer required, yet they generally don’t run around stoning people. So too with most Muslims.

Good for them. Pity the Muslims do not stop teaching hatred and violence against disbelievers. Perhaps they can learn from the Jews and Christians. But until they do, people like me will keep pointing out that what they are doing are not ‘very nice’ at all.

I have been told before that I would make an excellent Christian, but this is the first time I have been told that I am a better Christian than most even though I do not believe.

I would go so far as to say that. I don’t know your religious conviction. Perhaps you’re a Muslim - in that case go holiday in Mecca and kiss the black stone. But be aware we will all know of your hypocrisy in overlooking the slight problem of beheading the infidel.

If you are not a Muslim, then how can you think Islam is not teaching hatred and violence against disbelievers today?

In thousands of mosques this Friday - I can guarantee you there will be imams preaching hatred against disbelievers - invoking the Quran as the word of Allah.

Islam has never been at true peace with infidels. They either kill or oppress infidels. Even today. I can think of maybe 1 Islamic country out of 57 that I can reasonably say treats disbelievers fairly. Kazakshtan, the home of Borat. But the other 56 oppress disbelievers to varying degrees - depending on how closely they follow the teachings of their prophet.


#14

I do not have any plans to vacation in Saudi Arabia any time soon, and I hope eventually Mecca is opened up; but it doesn’t seem likely to happen in the very near future while the country is still under an extreme fundamentalist government. This is not a problem with the religion, but with the civil authority.

You will wait a long time for this. It is not a new phenomenon. The beheading of infidels in Mecca is a long tradition going back to 632AD. You can’t blame the civil authorities for this because there is no such thing in Saudi Arabia. Separation of religion and state is forbidden in Islam.

I think Saudi Arabia practises a purer form of Islam than most Islamic countries but do not think they are extremists. They are merely ‘less tarnished’ muslims.


#15

The poster mentioned medieval Spain (an Islamic Caliphate for most of that time) not medieval christianity. The Muslims weren’t driven out of Spain until virtually the end of the period we call the middle ages.


#16

It seems to me that a big difference between these verses and those found in the Quran are that these do not direct Christians to murder and kill all non-Christians.

The Exodus verse basically says that God will be on their side against non-believers and that they shouldn’t associate with them or their false gods.

The Corinthians verse basically advises against associating with unbelievers in order to avoid the possible negative ramifications of that association (ie. avoiding the temptation with avoid the sin).

Seems to me that is a a lot different from directing someone to kill because they don’t believe as you do.


#17

I would expect you to have the humanity and decency to realize that just as you and the Jews no longer follow the laws about stoning people, most Muslims do not follow the laws that say similar things.

Those parts in the OT are abrogated, my friend. Unfortunately the ‘hate/kill disbelievers’ verses in the Quran are not.

Then again I ask, what of the Jews? And how do you explain most Muslims considering those parts of the Quran not worth following?

I know most Muslims don’t go out and kill disbelievers - but they don’t have a problem with persecuting them do they? They don’t have a problem with the Saudis beheading a disbeliever who ventures into Mecca do they?

Plenty of them do have problems with that.

Also, a ‘moderate’ Muslim can turn into a ‘jihadist’ at the drop of a hat.

Let’s play Madlibs. A ‘moderate’ Christian can turn into an ‘abortion clinic bomber’ at the drop of a hat. Nope, sorry, failed.

You’re not a Christian, are you? If you were you’d know Christians don’t punish blasphemy or apostacy oh… for a couple of hundred years give or take.

How do you feel about what Christians did about that back then?

Good for them. Pity the Muslims do not stop teaching hatred and violence against disbelievers. Perhaps they can learn from the Jews and Christians. But until they do, people like me will keep pointing out that what they are doing are not ‘very nice’ at all.

Most Muslims are not doing these things. Attack fundamentalism, not the faith itself.

If you are not a Muslim, then how can you think Islam is not teaching hatred and violence against disbelievers today?

Because unlike some people here, I can recognize the difference between followers and fanatics?


#18

Yes, but I think he was clearly referring to the time of Ferdinand and Isabella.

He also claimed that people here are teaching hatred against Muslims. How? By telling the truth about Islamic teachings today? I am yet to see a poster here advocated killing and persecuting Muslims in this thread or any other. But moral equivalence is a very tricky beast.


#19

It is my sincere hope that this is true. However, I am increasingly skeptical that it is, given the little to no denunciation by “peaceful” Muslims of the violence perpetrated by the extremists.

Just because most Muslims don’t actually take an active role in doing violence to non-Muslims, that does not mean they don’t condone it.

A while back I posted a thread asking the Muslims on the board if they denounced the terroristic violence of 9/11, etc. Not one of them responded to the thread. To me, that silence speaks volumes, as does the silence of most Muslim clerics, etc. after those attacks and to this day.

Believe me, I would love to be convinced that Muslim is, at its core, a peaceful religion, but there seems to be growing reasons for me not to believe that is true.


#20

Check these out, I found them a while ago for another thread. Peace and denunciation of violence aren’t very good at selling headlines.

gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2007/04/moroccans-protest-islamic-terrorism-in.html instapundit.com/archives/012962.php voanews.com/english/archive/2005-05/2005-05-13-voa38.cfm?CFID=158310396&CFTOKEN=36034116 blackfive.net/main/2005/07/iraqis_march_ag.html jordanembassyus.org/04292004007.htm gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2005/07/more-good-news-from-denmark.html

And in any case, are they their brothers’ keepers? Do you protest abortion clinic bombings? Why expect others to hold to a standard you do not?


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