Isn't God Everywhere?

I hope this isn’t a repeat thread. If it is I apologize. When i tried to submit the first time, my computer chose to very hateful. I wasn’t sure it went through.

I put this under non-Catholic religons because I’m not Catholic. Hope it’s in the right place.

Greetings Catholic brethren and sistren,

My question comes from another post talking about missing Mass on purpose, and it being a mortal sin. The main reason givenon the other thread is because Jesus is there (in the Eucharist) and skipping out on Mass = skipping out on Jesus.

I know you guys believe real presence in the communion. But really…it’s almost like you’re saying. Jesus is in this church at this particular time and can’t be anywhere else. If you don’t go to mass, you won’t be anywhere near God. Isn’t he everywhere? I mean, not to say that everyone ought to skip mass/church every 5 seconds because “God is everywhere.” But too, I don’t think he’s confined to that sacramental bread and wine for a few minutes every Sunday and that’s all - that Jesus is only at Mass so therefore if you miss Mass than you miss Jesus.

Please no one scream at me and roll your eyes and say “Yes, that’s such a Protestant thing to say. You people go to church whenever you darn well please.” Whether that’s true or not is not the issue. My question is sincere. I would never bash ya’ll.

Hello Curious:

Yes, God is indeed everywhere, so HE doesn’t need us to be in any particular place, though I would claim that WE may need to be in a particular place to worship Him properly. That’s why I would urge Protestants, who do not have and do not claim to have Jesus substantially present in the Eucharist, to nevertheless worship in their churches regularly. THEY need to.

But remember that the Catholic Church teaches and believes that Jesus is True God and True Man, so that when she also teaches and believes that Jesus is truly present in the tabernacle or on the altar after consecration she is saying that He is present there in both His divine and His human natures. What is unique in our belief in the Real Presence is not that Jesus is present as God, but that He is present as man. And when we say that He is present as man, we mean also that although He is present under the appearances of bread and wine He truly is bodily present, and hence, present as true man with His human intellect and will, with His human memory and His human emotions. Like any lover with his beloved, in loving us He wants our company and our love in return. So in visiting Him in a church or in attending Mass we Catholics really do have the great privilege of keeping human company with Him.

BTW, the whole Jesus is truly present wherever He is sacramentally present: because He is both God and man He is able to multilocate His human body, a thing impossible for anyone but God. So we don’t say that because Jesus’ Body is truly present in this church It cannot be present elsewhere sacramentally. And of course we also know that the Holy Trinity as God is equally present everywhere in several ways.

I hope I’ve said enough and not too much, and that all this will be of some help to you.

Regards,
Joannes

[quote=Curious]I hope this isn’t a repeat thread. If it is I apologize. When i tried to submit the first time, my computer chose to very hateful. I wasn’t sure it went through.

I put this under non-Catholic religons because I’m not Catholic. Hope it’s in the right place.

Greetings Catholic brethren and sistren,

My question comes from another post talking about missing Mass on purpose, and it being a mortal sin. The main reason givenon the other thread is because Jesus is there (in the Eucharist) and skipping out on Mass = skipping out on Jesus.

I know you guys believe real presence in the communion. But really…it’s almost like you’re saying. Jesus is in this church at this particular time and can’t be anywhere else. If you don’t go to mass, you won’t be anywhere near God. Isn’t he everywhere? I mean, not to say that everyone ought to skip mass/church every 5 seconds because “God is everywhere.” But too, I don’t think he’s confined to that sacramental bread and wine for a few minutes every Sunday and that’s all - that Jesus is only at Mass so therefore if you miss Mass than you miss Jesus.

Please no one scream at me and roll your eyes and say “Yes, that’s such a Protestant thing to say. You people go to church whenever you darn well please.” Whether that’s true or not is not the issue. My question is sincere. I would never bash ya’ll.
[/quote]

What is unique in our belief in the Real Presence is not that Jesus is present as God, but that He is present as man. And when we say that He is present as man, we mean also that although He is present under the appearances of bread and wine He truly is bodily present, and hence, present as true man with His human intellect and will, with His human memory and His human emotions.

Gosh…that IS really helpful. If you believe that Jesus is present in such a capacity, no wonder it’s considered a mortal sin to miss mass on purpose. :eek:

Thanks…that was great. Hehe…I should have probably posted in this in the "Is it a mortal sin to mass mass’ thread. You answered my question real quick and now I don’t have anything else to add to it. lol…a two post thread.

Joannes:

NICE POST!!! You explained that very well!!! :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

[quote=Curious]Gosh…that IS really helpful. If you believe that Jesus is present in such a capacity, no wonder it’s considered a mortal sin to miss mass on purpose. :eek:

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And THAT realization my friend is what so many Protestants miss!

Here is my meager addendum. The original question has already been answered very well.

You have heard of “thoughts, words, deeds”. Here is a small example.

You have the “thought” of something you want for your child.
You sit or kneel by your bed and “pray” for your child.
(But you have not sacrificed, you have not “done” anything yet.)
So the next day you take time out to go to the Church (an action), you light a candle (an action), you go down front and kneel and pray again (an action).

Thoughts, words and deeds. You did them all. Which means more? Praying at home or sacrificing by traveling to the Church to pray?

[quote=Curious] Please no one scream at me and roll your eyes and say "Yes, that’s such a Protestant thing to say.
[/quote]

Actually, serious Protestants also consider communal worship on Sunday to be an essential of living out the faith – after all, that’s what the Church of Scripture did. How can we be the Church if we do not come together? God may be everywhere, but the Church is by definition a community.

The idea that missing church on Sunday is a trivial matter is not so much a Protestant assessment as it is a secular one. :slight_smile:

Actually, serious Protestants also consider communal worship on Sunday to be an essential of living out the faith – after all, that’s what the Church of Scripture did. How can we be the Church if we do not come together? God may be everywhere, but the Church is by definition a community.

The idea that missing church on Sunday is a trivial matter is not so much a Protestant assessment as it is a secular one

Heh…good point. However, many Protestants do not believe missing church is any kind of sin, much less a mortal one. This kind of goes along with the whole "freedom in Christ’ line of thought, which may or may not be taken into extreme.

[quote=Exporter] Which means more? Praying at home or sacrificing by traveling to the Church to pray?
[/quote]

I think these are equally important, just like a child who has no money and wants to give his parents a birthday gift; he can’t go to Macy’s to find a fancy one, but he can go to his room, close his door, break out the crayons and paper and make his wishes known in a colorful and meaningful way. And this might even take more time and deliberation than if he could cruise to the department store. Just a thought your words have inspired.

Actually, serious Protestants also consider communal worship on Sunday to be an essential of living out the faith – after all, that’s what the Church of Scripture did. How can we be the Church if we do not come together? God may be everywhere, but the Church is by definition a community.

The idea that missing church on Sunday is a trivial matter is not so much a Protestant assessment as it is a secular one. :slight_smile:

Heh. That’s a good point. There are protestants, however, that do not consider missing church a sin, big or little. I believe it has to do with the whole ‘freedom in Christ’ line of thought, which may or may not be taken into extremes.

From the Catholic Catechism

1074 "The liturgy is the summit toward which the activity of the Church is directed; it is also the font from which all her power flows."13 It is therefore the privileged place for catechizing the People of God. "Catechesis is intrinsically linked with the whole of liturgical and sacramental activity, for it is in the sacraments, especially in the Eucharist, that Christ Jesus works in fullness for the transformation of men."14

**1391 **Holy Communion augments our union with Christ. The principal fruit of receiving the Eucharist in Holy Communion is an intimate union with Christ Jesus. Indeed, the Lord said: “He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.” Life in Christ has its foundation in the Eucharistic banquet: “As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats me will live because of me.”

On the feasts of the Lord, when the faithful receive the Body of the Son, they proclaim to one another the Good News that the first fruits of life have been given, as when the angel said to Mary Magdalene, “Christ is risen!” Now too are life and resurrection conferred on whoever receives Christ.
**1374 **The mode of Christ’s presence under the Eucharistic species is unique. It raises the Eucharist above all the sacraments as “the perfection of the spiritual life and the end to which all the sacraments tend.” In the most blessed sacrament of the Eucharist “the body and blood, together with the soul and divinity, of our Lord Jesus Christ and, therefore, the whole Christ is truly, really, and substantially contained.” “This presence is called ‘real’ - by which is not intended to exclude the other types of presence as if they could not be ‘real’ too, but because it is presence in the fullest sense: that is to say, it is a *substantial *presence by which Christ, God and man, makes himself wholly and entirely present.”

[quote=Cherub]I think these are equally important, just like a child who has no money and wants to give his parents a birthday gift; he can’t go to Macy’s to find a fancy one, but he can go to his room, close his door, break out the crayons and paper and make his wishes known in a colorful and meaningful way. And this might even take more time and deliberation than if he could cruise to the department store. Just a thought your words have inspired.
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Hi Cherub, There is no place like being in our Fathers House. Yes praying is important but Gods presence and His annoiting is more visable at His alters in my oppinion. Its easy to stay home,it takes sacrafice to go to His House. God Bless

Here’s another way to look at it.

We are all members of “a royal priesthood to offer spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God through Jesus Christ (1 Peter 2:5)”. The spiritual sacrifice that we offer is the sacrifice of the Mass. While it is offered by the ordained priest he is offering it on our behalf. The sacrifice is offered by all of us. At Mass we say “may the Lord accept the sacrifice at your hands”. We all say this because it’s from all of us at the hands of the ordained priest. Our function and obligation as members of the royal priesthood is to offer sacrifice, the sacrifice of the Mass. We can’t do that if we’re not at Mass. If we’re not at Mass we can’t fullfil our obligation as priests.

Each individual Catholic serves an essential function at Mass as a part of this royal priesthood. As priests it matters whether or not we’re there. What we do is “for our good and the good of all His Church”, not just for our good alone. The Protestant attends service for his good alone. He goes so HE can get fed and so that HE can praise and worship. His absence has no real impact on the rest of the worldwide Church. Ours does. Since it’s spiritual sacrifice that we offer, in union with Christ and every other Catholic around the world, spiritually it’s just not the same if we aren’t there, even if it looks the same on the outside. Nothing is different if the Protestant misses his service.

Just another point of view.

In Christ,
Nancy :slight_smile:

[quote=Catholic4aReasn]The Protestant attends service for his good alone. He goes so HE can get fed and so that HE can praise and worship. His absence has no real impact on the rest of the worldwide Church.
[/quote]

Though I am sure many Protestants would disagree with you, I believe your observation is well founded. The Reformation was born and came of age in an era of increasing emphasis on individusalism as a virtue. Even in mainstream Protestantism – but moreso in Evangelical and Fundamentalist versions – the emphasis is on my personal salvation, my personal relationship with Jesus. The Catholic view stresses the Communion of Saints – and we’re a part of it.

[quote=Catholic4aReasn] The Protestant attends service for his good alone. He goes so HE can get fed and so that HE can praise and worship. His absence has no real impact on the rest of the worldwide Church. Ours does. Just another point of view.

In Christ,
Nancy :slight_smile:
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Hi Nancy,not very nice.Being judgemental are we? Of course I disagree with you.So my praise and worship and prayers dont reach the heavens and have no impact according to you. :mad: God Bless anyways

[quote=SPOKENWORD]Hi Nancy,not very nice.Being judgemental are we? Of course I disagree with you.So my praise and worship and prayers dont reach the heavens and have no impact according to you. :mad: God Bless anyways
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Hi SPOKENWORD! :wave:

You read something into my post that wasn’t there. If you go back and reread you’ll find that I didn’t say that your praise and worship and prayers don’t reach the heavens and that they have no impact. That may be what you heard, but as you can see, that’s not what I said. What I said, specifically, was that your ABSENCE has no significant impact. I made no mention at all about anything reaching the heavens. Your rewording of my comments completely changed their meaning.

I have no doubt that your prayers and worship and praise reach the heavens and have an impact, but they’ll do that whether they are being offered at your church or at your kitchen table or in your bathtub. You don’t have to go to church to offer prayers and worship and praise. We have to go to church to participate in the sacrifice of the Mass. If Protestants thought for a moment that their personal prayers and worship and praise they offer while in attendance at church, in particular, had a significant impact on the world there’s no way they miss going to church. They’d definitely see it as a sin. As it is, what you do there can just as well be done anywhere. What we do cannot. Therein lies the difference.

I’m sorry you misunderstood me and were offended. It wasn’t my intent.

In Christ,
Nancy :slight_smile:

Curious, here are a few things to meditate upon.

God was present in a special way in the Ark of the Covenant and in the Temple sanctuary at Jerusalem. How was this special presence of God different than God’s omnipresence in the world?

Did Jews feel obliged by the law of God to go to the Temple to offer up sacrifices?

The Jews gathered as a community at the Temple during the Day of Atonement to participate in a liturgy where the high priest offered up to God a sacrifice for the atonement of sin. This OT liturgy is a type that has its fulfillment in a NT antitype. Today, where would one look to find the liturgical antitype that fulfills this OT liturgical type?

I’ve also heard it, when I was little, compared to calling somone on the phone, vs. talking to them in person :slight_smile:

[quote=Catholic4aReasn]Hi SPOKENWORD! :wave:

You read something into my post that wasn’t there. If you go back and reread you’ll find that I didn’t say that your praise and worship and prayers don’t reach the heavens and that they have no impact. That may be what you heard, but as you can see, that’s not what I said. What I said, specifically, was that your ABSENCE has no significant impact. I made no mention at all about anything reaching the heavens. Your rewording of my comments completely changed their meaning.

I have no doubt that your prayers and worship and praise reach the heavens and have an impact, but they’ll do that whether they are being offered at your church or at your kitchen table or in your bathtub. You don’t have to go to church to offer prayers and worship and praise. We have to go to church to participate in the sacrifice of the Mass. If Protestants thought for a moment that their personal prayers and worship and praise they offer while in attendance at church, in particular, had a significant impact on the world there’s no way they miss going to church. They’d definitely see it as a sin. As it is, what you do there can just as well be done anywhere. What we do cannot. Therein lies the difference.

I’m sorry you misunderstood me and were offended. It wasn’t my intent.

In Christ,
Nancy :slight_smile:
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Hi Nancy,Sorry about misunderstanding you. Personally I take church seriously.Scripture does say not to forsake the assemblies[church]. I love church so much that im there 6 days a week.[Even God rested on the seventh] :wink: As a former catholic in over 35 years I didnt miss mass more than a couple of times. Theres a difference in wanting to be there and having to be there. The closer we draw to the Lord the closer He will draw to us. God Bless.

Hi SPOKENWORD!

[quote=SPOKENWORD] Theres a difference in wanting to be there and having to be there. .
[/quote]

Couldn’t agree more! Those of us who truly understand what the Mass is can’t wait to get there! Wanting to be there certainly isn’t an issue!!! It’s the pew warmers who have virtually no conception of why they’re there other than that’s what they’ve always done on Sundays that have a problem.

I think that many outside the Church look at “having” to be there as merely a control thing, you have to be there because the Church says you have to be there. We “have” to be at Mass in the same way that a surgeon “has” to show up for surgery. We have something to do there, something important, something essential, an obligation. A surgeon can’t just call up and say, “I’m tired this morning, I’ll do the surgery from home later”. No, he has to get up and go to where the surgery is taking place in order to fulfill his obligation, in order to fulfill his function as a surgeon. We have a function, an obligation, as priests. It’s not something we can do another time or simply skip if we don’t feel like it. We have to go to where the sacrifice of the Mass is being offered in order to participate. Our presence there matters.

When a Protestant doesn’t show up for services the service, inside and out, is essentially the same with or without him. Not so of the Catholic Mass. While the Mass may still take place and look the same from the outside even through members are missing, spiritually on a worldwide scale, it’s not the same. The Mass isn’t our own, individual parish’s celebration, it’s a participation in the very sacrifice of Christ, celebrated every moment of every day somewhere in the world. As priests we have an obligation to assist at Mass for it to be what God intended it to be.

I’m not sure how else to explain it. It might be one of those things that you just can’t get if you aren’t living it.

In Christ,
Nancy :slight_smile:

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