Isn't this proof of Catholic Faith?


#1

The following passage speaks about end times, the last days. Protestants often use the book of Daniel and the book of Revelation to make their points about end times predictions. Yet, it strikes me that this particular passage proves the Roman Catholic position regarding the Eucharist as a sacrifice. After all, what entity on earth–other then Catholic Churches (and eastern churches)–offers a daily sacrifice?

Is this not Biblical proof of the Roman Catholic faith (at least with regards to the Eucharist)?

Once Protestants see this passage for what it is, how can they not see that there is only one faith that applies?

Many shall be refined, purified, and tested, but the wicked shall prove wicked; none of them shall have understanding, but the wise shall have it. From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the horrible abomination is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days. Blessed is the man who has patience and perseveres until the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days. Go, take your rest, you shall rise for your reward at the end of days." [Daniel 12:10-13]


#2

Very inciteful. I concur with your interpretation and have never heard a protestant explanation for it. I really don’t see how you can explain it away if you are a literalist, but then again, i’ve seen literalists explain away the Eucharist, so. . .


#3

[quote=TPJCatholic]Many shall be refined, purified, and tested, but the wicked shall prove wicked; none of them shall have understanding, but the wise shall have it. From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the horrible abomination is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days. Blessed is the man who has patience and perseveres until the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days. Go, take your rest, you shall rise for your reward at the end of days." [Daniel 12:10-13]
[/quote]

Actually Protestant Escatologists preach that the sacrifice that is to be abolished here is the daily animal sacrifice in a newly rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. The Antichrist, a future leader of the European Union, (the revived “Holy Roman Empire”) will have his image set up in this newly rebuilt temple and the Roman Pontiff, a future validly elected Pope, will declare this man to be God and force the entire world to worship him and have his statue set up in churches, synogogues, places of worship everywhere.

Ken


#4

[quote=kleary]Actually Protestant Escatologists preach that the sacrifice that is to be abolished here is the daily animal sacrifice in a newly rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. The Antichrist, a future leader of the European Union, (the revived “Holy Roman Empire”) will have his image set up in this newly rebuilt temple and the Roman Pontiff, a future validly elected Pope, will declare this man to be God and force the entire world to worship him and have his statue set up in churches, synogogues, places of worship everywhere.

Ken
[/quote]

i thougth he was going to rule from Jerusalem, and the Jews
were going to declare him the Messiah… ?

:slight_smile:


#5

kleary,

Where do they find a rebuild of the temple in the Bible?


#6

[quote=dafalax]Very inciteful. I concur with your interpretation and have never heard a protestant explanation for it. I really don’t see how you can explain it away if you are a literalist, but then again, i’ve seen literalists explain away the Eucharist, so. . .
[/quote]

Here is an excerpt from a protestant website on the subject:

REBUILDING

(3) For that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,

(4) who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshipped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing (Claiming) himself that he is God. (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4)

This passage is better known as the Abomination of Desolation. This is a time when the AntiChrist will sit down in the Temple of God and claim to be God. This and other passages imply that another sign to us would be the rebuilding of the Jewish Temple (Solomon’s Temple). Jesus says in Mark 13:14 “So when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ … Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains”

Today we see a huge movement in Israel for the rebuilding of the Temple. Organizations such as The Temple Institute and the Temple Mount Faithful are leading the way.

angelfire.com/theforce/trm/facts.html


#7

[quote=kleary]Actually Protestant Escatologists preach that the sacrifice that is to be abolished here is the daily animal sacrifice in a newly rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. The Antichrist, a future leader of the European Union, (the revived “Holy Roman Empire”) will have his image set up in this newly rebuilt temple and the Roman Pontiff, a future validly elected Pope, will declare this man to be God and force the entire world to worship him and have his statue set up in churches, synogogues, places of worship everywhere.

[/quote]

At first, I thought the original post about Daniel was good proof of the truth of Catholicism.

…but if Protestants actually believe what you just said, I think that’s even stronger proof of the truth of Catholicism.


#8

that’s more the way i was taught as a baptist growing up…

the antichrist will set himself up as god in Jerusalem, and
the Jewish people will accept him as the messiah… but later,
some will begin to understand he isn’t the messiah, and
they will then fight to remove him from the temple… that
will be when the final war will begin… then at the end Jesus
will return…

of course, i know that a lot of those teachings have changed…
i was taught, that all these things would happen, then Christ
would return… ( the 2nd comming )…

now some teach the ‘rapture’, which they think will occure
before these things, then i guess Jesus will come a 3rd time
after that… not sure…
lol

so, by my own reasoning, i figured if the antichrist would have
to be someone the Jews would accept as the Messiah…
and since the Church teaches Jesus was the Messiah, then the
Jews would never accept anyone from the Church as
the Messiah… so, no one from the church could be the
antichrist…

make sense??

:slight_smile:


#9

The abomination of desolation Jesus is speaking of is the destruction of the temple in 70 A.D. when the roman army destroys the temple.

In Daniel the writer predicts the desecration of the temple by Antiochas who destroyed Jerusalem in 167 B.C., stole the Holy objects from the temple and built a statue of Zeus in the temple.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene


#10

If anyone is to sit in the Temple of God, then that will be a Roman Catholic CHurch…


#11

[quote=TPJCatholic]If anyone is to sit in the Temple of God, then that will be a Roman Catholic CHurch…
[/quote]

not if you are a Jew…

:slight_smile:


#12

[quote=TPJCatholic]kleary,

Where do they find a rebuild of the temple in the Bible?
[/quote]

I do not remember where it is found, just that they use the Abomination of Desolation thing to come as the Antichrist sitting in a Temple in Jerusalem.

In your next post you say that it will be in a Catholic Church… well images of the Antichrist will be set up in ALL places of worship, any “rebuilt temple” in Jerusalem is immaterial since the Temple of God is any Catholic Church.

Then again you can speculate that the Jews will convert to Catholicism first and then rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem for Catholic worship… having the Sacrifice of the Mass there every day (oooo…that gives me goosebumps!) [Protestants would have a field day with that one- seeing the Roman Pontiff celebrate the Catholic Mass in that Temple!] – then the Antichrist will come, he will install a false Pope in Jerusalem who will claim him to be God, and most will apostacize and accept him as the Messiah… just speculation…

Ken


#13

[quote=Nicene]The abomination of desolation Jesus is speaking of is the destruction of the temple in 70 A.D. when the roman army destroys the temple.
[/quote]

The “Abomination of Desolation” was an image of a false god set up in the temple, according to the OT.

Caesar did not order his image set up in the 70 AD Temple to be worshipped by all the people of the world.

Ken


#14

There are many verses in Daniel and in Revelation that refer to a period of ‘days’. Seventh-day Adventists interpret these as refering to actual calendar years and have a complex system of prophecy interpretation built on the assumption that in prophecy one ‘day’ equals one ‘year’. Its impressive! very convincing! No wonder people get caught up in it, it really does seem lilke a secret bible code just deciphered. The problem is, if you take out a solid academic history book, the dates are don’t work out. They take a significant but recent date lilke the 1870 Vatican I council (which affirmed papal authority) and work backwards. In their system, the fall of Rome is put at 457. If you look it up in a history book, 457 was the beginning of the reign of the next to the last emperor. The last emperor died in 476. That is the year most historians accept as as the fall of Rome, the death of the last western emperor. They (adventists) also say that Constantine introduced Sunday worship in the fourth century, forbidding sabbath worship to consolidate his christian and pagan subjects. This is contrary to the clear documentation of Sunday assemblies in the writings of the Church Fathers. (But thats a huge topic for another post).

For a totally different view of the book of Revelation, try reading ‘The Lamb’s Supper’ by Scott Hahn. One thing that sticks in my mind, the image of the bones of the martyrs crying out from under the altar in heaven. In what churches do you find altars with relics in them? Certainly not down at First Non-denominational.


#15

[quote=kleary]The “Abomination of Desolation” was an image of a false god set up in the temple, according to the OT.

Caesar did not order his image set up in the 70 AD Temple to be worshipped by all the people of the world.

Ken
[/quote]

And I didn’t say he did. However that doesn’t change the fact that Jesus was talking about the temple destruction. Jesus also pulls imagery from Isa, Dan, Eze, and 1 Mac.

However in the OT, Daniel specifically, does predict a false god set up in the temple. Daniel predicts the desolating sacrilege of 167 A.D., Antiochus Epiphanes IV who sacks Jerusalem and erects a statue of Zeus.

In the synoptics, when Jesus deals with the end of the world and the destruction of the temple he interweaves them into one discourse. If that’s not the case then there is the problem because he told the apostles that their generation would not pass away before these things took place shortly after his ascention. So either Jesus made a mistake, or people reading something into it that isn’t there.

Sinse I don’t believe Jesus is the one making the mistake…

What does the temple signify to the Jews (especially biblically, OT Jews)? How do they view it?

Why does God destroy the temple? (more correctly, allow it to be destroyed by the Romans)

Peace and God Bless
Nicene


#16

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