Isn't this taken out of context? The Intercession of Saints


#1

catholic.com/tracts/the-intercession-of-the-saints

On the link above it mentions Psalms 103:20-21 which states: "Bless the Lord, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do his word, hearkening to the voice of his word! Bless the Lord, all his hosts, his ministers that do his will!"

What I have noticed in the verse is that it mentions that the angels must bless the Lord, and I don't see how this can have anything to do with intercession? :confused:

Also, in Psalms 148:2 it states " Praise him, all his angels, praise him, all his host ".
It seems as if David is telling the Angels to praise the Lord, and I don't see how this scripture has anything to do with praising the Saints, because in verse 3 it states " praise him, sun and moon, and all you shining stars!" So are we suppose to also ask the moon to interceed for us? (Ofcorse that was sarcasm). I am just very confused, can anyone please explain these scriptures to me and how it has to do with intercession. Thanks and God Bless!


#2

Hi BVM,

Yes, this is weak. Those quotes from the psalms don't really prove anything. And the references to "saints" is really a reference to living Christians. Asking for the intercessionn of saints has been a practice of the Church since early times. So it is justfied by tradition not the Bible, although the Bible says nothing against it.

Praying to the saints is really praying to God asking him for favors in view of the merits acquired by the saints.

Verbum


#3

[quote="Verbum, post:2, topic:315257"]
Hi BVM,

Yes, this is weak. Those quotes from the psalms don't really prove anything. And the references to "saints" is really a reference to living Christians. Asking for the intercessionn of saints has been a practice of the Church since early times. So it is justfied by tradition not the Bible, although the Bible says nothing against it.

Praying to the saints is really praying to God asking him for favors in view of the merits acquired by the saints.

Verbum

[/quote]

Very well said! I think sometimes Catholics will try to play the Protestant game of feeling obligated to prove a doctrine by Bible passages that they sometimes use verses that might provide a vague cross-reference but not an obvious indicator. Catholics and Protestants have different standards that we follow, and there is no need to limit ourselves to the incomplete and flawed limitations that Protestants follow of Bible alone. We have 2000 years of Church articulation and understanding!


#4

I think you missed the point: DAVID is directing his prayer (the Psalm) TO the angels.


#5

[quote="1ke, post:4, topic:315257"]
I think you missed the point: DAVID is directing his prayer (the Psalm) TO the angels.

[/quote]

You are correct, I missed that point! Thank you for pointing that out!


#6

[quote="Verbum, post:2, topic:315257"]
Hi BVM,

Yes, this is weak. Those quotes from the psalms don't really prove anything. And the references to "saints" is really a reference to living Christians. Asking for the intercessionn of saints has been a practice of the Church since early times. So it is justfied by tradition not the Bible, although the Bible says nothing against it.

Praying to the saints is really praying to God asking him for favors in view of the merits acquired by the saints.

Verbum

[/quote]

There are plenty of places where the bible mentions the intercession of Saints and prayer for one another in the Body of Christ, but I did not get these two scripture verses which was my point. The Bible is a Catholic book, and no Catholic teaching or practice contradicts it, and never has. If that was the case, then the early Church was in complete error for there traditions since they did not have the Bible, but only Oral Tradition from the Apostles.

God Bless,
BVMFatima


#7

[quote="COPLAND_3, post:3, topic:315257"]
Very well said! I think sometimes Catholics will try to play the Protestant game of feeling obligated to prove a doctrine by Bible passages that they sometimes use verses that might provide a vague cross-reference but not an obvious indicator. Catholics and Protestants have different standards that we follow, and there is no need to limit ourselves to the incomplete and flawed limitations that Protestants follow of Bible alone. We have 2000 years of Church articulation and understanding!

[/quote]

I don't see how quoting scripture to share the Catholic faith is a "Protestant game" because the Bible is our book and the man made Protestant religions tried interpretating the book for themselves, and all have different interpretations and doctrines. The only game they are plying is a very misleading one and they are very lost.

God Bless!


#8

[quote="BVMFatima, post:1, topic:315257"]
catholic.com/tracts/the-intercession-of-the-saints

On the link above it mentions Psalms 103:20-21 which states: "Bless the Lord, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do his word, hearkening to the voice of his word! Bless the Lord, all his hosts, his ministers that do his will!"

What I have noticed in the verse is that it mentions that the angels must bless the Lord, and I don't see how this can have anything to do with intercession? :confused:

Also, in Psalms 148:2 it states " Praise him, all his angels, praise him, all his host ".
It seems as if David is telling the Angels to praise the Lord, and I don't see how this scripture has anything to do with praising the Saints, because in verse 3 it states " praise him, sun and moon, and all you shining stars!" So are we suppose to also ask the moon to interceed for us? (Ofcorse that was sarcasm). I am just very confused, can anyone please explain these scriptures to me and how it has to do with intercession. Thanks and God Bless!

[/quote]

You are right. The quotes from the Psalms are not proof that the Bible directs the angels to intercede for us. These quotes are proof that the Bible directs the angels to pray with us.

I read the link that you provided and it seems to me that the Biblical proof regarding the intercession of the angels and the saints may be found in paragraphs 3 and 4 of the cited link. You therefore should look at the Book of Revelations to find scriptural bases for the belief that angels and saints also pray for us.


#9

Fundamentalists often challenge the Catholic practice of asking saints and angels to pray on our behalf. *But the Bible directs us to invoke those in heaven and ask them to pray with us. *

Thus, in Psalm 103 we pray, "Bless the Lord, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do his word, hearkening to the voice of his word! Bless the Lord, all his hosts, his ministers that do his will!" (Ps. 103:20–21). And in the opening verses of Psalms 148 we pray, "Praise the Lord! Praise the Lord from the heavens, praise him in the heights! Praise him, all his angels, praise him, all his host!"

Not only do those in heaven pray with us, they also pray for us. In the book of Revelation, John sees that "the twenty-four elders [the leaders of the people of God in heaven] fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints" (Rev. 5:8). Thus the saints in heaven offer to God the prayers of the saints on earth.

This is the paragraph before and after your reference paragraph. I've highlighted the key sentences. The Psalms are an example of how angels pray WITH us. Then you notice, "they also pray for us." and he goes on to reference Revelations as the intercessory scripture.


#10

What is confusing me is that it seems the elders (the Saints in Heaven) are just presenting or prayers to God than praying for us, but what do I know? :confused::shrug:


#11

[quote="BVMFatima, post:10, topic:315257"]
What is confusing me is that it seems the elders (the Saints in Heaven) are just presenting or prayers to God than praying for us, but what do I know? :confused::shrug:

[/quote]

Understood. But do you think the saints in heaven are praying for themselves? They already are in heaven, aren't they? I think it is more likely that they are praying for us.


#12

ewtn.com/johnpaul2/cause/process.asp

The theological commission must also determine whether the miracle resulted through the intercession of the Servant of God alone.

I came across this while preparing for an RCIA class. Hope it helps.

One becomes a Saint only after they have proved their ability to intercede. Twice.


#13

[quote="BVMFatima, post:7, topic:315257"]
I don't see how quoting scripture to share the Catholic faith is a "Protestant game" because the Bible is our book and the man made Protestant religions tried interpretating the book for themselves, and all have different interpretations and doctrines. The only game they are plying is a very misleading one and they are very lost.

God Bless!

[/quote]

You misunderstood me, I was not saying that using Scripture is a Protestant game. If you reread my post you will see what I was saying, that sometimes Catholics get caught trying to play the Protestant game of thinking they need a Bible verse to prove a doctrine and sometimes that leads to using a verse that really doesn't prove a point. Though I failed to see the point that was being made in the Catholic Answers tract when quoting Psalms, until 1ke pointed it out. But my point that I was trying to make was that we as Catholics are not obligated to prove a doctrine by a Bible verse that spells it out, but we can rely on Tradition, which usually does have Bible passages that spell it out, but sometimes Scripture does not specifically spell it out but only hints.


#14

[quote="BVMFatima, post:1, topic:315257"]
catholic.com/tracts/the-intercession-of-the-saints

On the link above it mentions Psalms 103:20-21 which states: "Bless the Lord, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do his word, hearkening to the voice of his word! Bless the Lord, all his hosts, his ministers that do his will!"

What I have noticed in the verse is that it mentions that the angels must bless the Lord, and I don't see how this can have anything to do with intercession? :confused:

Also, in Psalms 148:2 it states " Praise him, all his angels, praise him, all his host ".
It seems as if David is telling the Angels to praise the Lord, and I don't see how this scripture has anything to do with praising the Saints, because in verse 3 it states " praise him, sun and moon, and all you shining stars!" So are we suppose to also ask the moon to interceed for us? (Ofcorse that was sarcasm). I am just very confused, can anyone please explain these scriptures to me and how it has to do with intercession. Thanks and God Bless!

[/quote]

Hello dear....So if I ask you to pray for me, am I doing anything wrong? I ask you to pray for me, and I hope you will. If you ask me to pray for you then I will keep you in my prayers. So if one can ask another human to pray for them, then why not ask the Blessed Mother or St.________? I am asking you to intercede on my behalf with a prayer just like I do when I talk with St. Patrick! Make sense?


#15

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