Israel is Christian Prophecy?

I keep hearing certain Protestants talk about how the current state of Israel is Christian prophecy. They talk about all Jews returning to the land of Israel, specifically meaning now, the State of Israel. They say all countries will go against this specific State and it will be before the return of Christ.

What do we (Catholics) think about this?

I don’t concern myself with “protestant prophecy”. Its not Catholic. In fact if its not in scripture or tradition I try to completely ignore it.:slight_smile:

The "End time"Apocalyptic churches (usually Non-Denoms or Pentacostal) view that we are living in the “end times” and see what is happening in Israel as what is predicted in the Book of Revelation (Apocalypse in the Douay-Rhemis). There is speculation that once Israel starts a fight with it’s Islamic neighbors, that will bring about the “Anti-Christ” who will then broker a peace deal with Israel and her enemies. Around this time, some believe that the “rapture” will occur. Then, for lack of better words, All hell breaks loose.

The Bible is very specific about Israel as a national ethnic people from its beginnings … and its future

Not only does the Bible record these things in great detail, recorded history and archaeology confirm the truth about the matter

The problem with understanding this truth is that men have come with a Christian fronting that cause doubt by presenting with intent to make merchandise of those who hear

This has been observed time after time over the centuries and many have been taken down a wayward path … most of those who sell the same present a very shallow and corrupted version of what the scriptures really teach

Is the Israel of today surrounded by the tiny nation’s ancient enemies the one that the Bible prophets project in their visions?

Yes it is … and unfortunately much of the world today has no understanding of this fact

If any have questions about the Lord’s intent with His nation of Israel today I will respond

I only share information and do not engage in argumentation about the subject of this post

There is a convergence coming that will involve Israel and the surrounding Muslim states of the Middle East … and when this comes all on the earth will be involved

And Jesus Christ is going to win the contest

Notice the Lord telling of Israel’s past behavior and His continued intent to make and end of all nations in a day when Israel will alone will be left standing

Jeremiah 30:1-24

According to Catholic doctrine, the Church is the continuation of the People of God, the "new Israel. "The Old Testamant prophecies concerning Israel apply to the Church, and often have a figurative meaning that is deeper than just returning to a plot of land.

The modern state called “Israel” has no more or less significance in this regards than any other state.

Sorry, can’t agree

The scriptures posted above are obviously not about the “church”

I would suggest that you look further

Here is another example:

Ezekiel 36:1-38

But here’s a thought. Can it be both? Can the biblical prophecies about Israel mean the Catholic Church as the new Israel in a figurative sense and the country of Israel in a literal sense? Armageddon mentioned in the Holy Bible as the place where the final showdown will take place in the last days is located in “Mountain of Megiddo” (today called Tel Megiddo) in the same location as the country we call Israel. Also, here’s a New York Times article from 2009 about the river Euphrates: Iraq Suffers as the Euphrates River Dwindles

Revelation 16:12-16 (Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition)
The sixth angel poured his bowl on the great river Euphra′tes, and its water was dried up, to prepare the way for the kings from the east. And I saw, issuing from the mouth of the dragon and from the mouth of the beast and from the mouth of the false prophet, three foul spirits like frogs; for they are demonic spirits, performing signs, who go abroad to the kings of the whole world, to assemble them for battle on the great day of God the Almighty. (“Lo, I am coming like a thief! Blessed is he who is awake, keeping his garments that he may not go naked and be seen exposed!”) And they assembled them at the place which is called in Hebrew Armaged′don.

Not sure what Catholics think. It may be what individual Catholics may think, but more because of their political opinion. Depends on the Catholic. To my knowledge, the Church does not go for this kind of future prophecy. Reason being, those who have attempted to predict the future by the bible often prove to be wrong.

Zionism, which is what I understand to be what your talking about, is a Protestant fundamentalist belief.

My understanding is the State of Israel formed as a consequence of a political deal between the British and French to maintain their interests in the Near East. I don’t know God had a lot to do with that.

“But here’s a thought. Can it be both? Can the biblical prophecies about Israel mean the Catholic Church as the new Israel in a figurative sense and the country of Israel in a literal sense?”

Now someone’s getting closer to the truth … salvation for both the “Jew” and the Gentile is one thing … but the progression of Israel as a national Identity as an ensign to the nations is another

The Bible is very clear about this … all of the prophets see it [Isaiah 11]

And so does the Apostle Paul [Romans 11]

“My understanding is the State of Israel formed as a consequence of a political deal between the British and French to maintain their interests in the Near East. I don’t know God had a lot to do with that”

How do you know this …are you certain?

Take a look at some scriptural examples [Ezekiel 36; 38; 39; Daniel 9; Joel 2; 3; Micah 5; Zechariah 12; 13; 14; Matthew 24:15-16; Luke 21:20-36; Revelation 12]

If you have some knowledge of the recorded history of Israel from its beginnings, you can study the prophetic scriptures and compare

Also notice that all of the prophets and the Lord are consistent with each other regarding the same

By the way, if there is anything left of professing Christianity today, the RCC has to be the part … most all other spin offs of the reformer and reconstruction movements are in grave apostacy

I agree with you, Israel is going to play a big part in end times, I can easily see the world heading towards a time when every nation will want to wage war against it, we are really almost there, except for the US and UK for the most part.

Ive heard alot of people question why the US is not even mentioned in the ‘battle at the end’ in the valley of Megido, I tend to think the US will be destroyed by then and thus will not be able to be a part of this battle, the more I look into the topic, the more I see the US as being Babylon, there is just too many things mentioned about Babylon, that ONLY fit with it being the US and no other country.

The US is the main reason why Israel has not be invaded IMO, because they all know if they attack, the US will invade them for doing so, but if the US is utterly destroyed and cannot function anymore, this would change and I think we would see those nations invade Israel pretty quick.

Israel has and will continue to have a part to play. The specifics of all that are in God’s hands and are “above our pay grade.”

However, Protestant fundamentalists and especially dispensationalists like to try to dig around and make every verse of the Bible have some sort of application and explanation, no matter how hard they have to stretch, push, pull, or rationalize said passages in their teaching. Most times, they don’t even agree with each other.:shrug:

If you want a couple of very good sources that get into all this end times stuff from a very knowledgeable Catholic perspective, I recommend the following, (both of which I already have).
shop.catholic.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/small_image/135x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/b/e/beginning-apologetics-8.jpg
Beginning Apologetics 8: What Catholics Believe about the Second Coming, the Rapture, Heaven, Hell, Purgatory, and Indulgences

shop.catholic.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/small_image/135x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/e/n/end-of-the-world.jpg
What Jesus Really Said About The End Of The World

This is all part of what St. Paul tells us through his letter to Timothy when he says, [15] Carefully study to present thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.

I agree with you, Israel is going to play a big part in end times, I can easily see the world heading towards a time when every nation will want to wage war against it, we are really almost there, except for the US and UK for the most part.

Ive heard alot of people question why the US is not even mentioned in the ‘battle at the end’ in the valley of Megido, I tend to think the US will be destroyed by then and thus will not be able to be a part of this battle, the more I look into the topic, the more I see the US as being Babylon, there is just too many things mentioned about Babylon, that ONLY fit with it being the US and no other country.

The US is the main reason why Israel has not be invaded IMO, because they all know if they attack, the US will invade them for doing so, but if the US is utterly destroyed and cannot function anymore, this would change and I think we would see those nations invade Israel pretty quick"

I see exactly what you see … and if we are close to the end of this age of the Lord’s grace, the USA is the “great city” of the lost world of Gentiles [MBG] and is described precisely in Revelation 18

And it will be 10 Middle Eastern Muslim kings who will give their power and authority to the Satan’s beast [this angelic king will fully possess the little horn of Daniel’s visions [Revelation 9:11; 11:7; 13:1-4; 17:8-14] [Daniel 7:7-25; 8:9-12; 8:23-25; 9:24-27; [the other prince]; 11:36-45:12:7; Micah 5:5-6]

And it is this beast and his 10 kings who will attack and burn the “great city” in one day, never to recover again [Revelation 14:8; 18:2] … this will be the first judgment of the coming tribulation

The Bible prophets and the Lord are all focused upon the Middle East in the prophetic scriptures with regard to a national Israel surrounded by the descendants of the tiny nation’s ancient enemies [Psalms 83; Jeremiah 30; Ezekiel 36; 38; Daniel 11:41; Micah 5; Joel 2; 3; Zechariah 12;13;14; Matthew 24;15-16; Luke 21:20-36; Revelation 11; 12:6; 12:14-17]

This beast is Satan’s antichrist who will lead the Muslims of the Middle East, this one is called the “Assyrian” in Micah 5:5-6

Many of those of the reformation and restoration movements hatched the concept of a European/Western centered “antichrist” with the RCC at the core … this is a totally biased and corrupted interpretation of the prophetic scriptures and not true at all

.

“However, Protestant fundamentalists and especially dispensationalists like to try to dig around and make every verse of the Bible have some sort of application and explanation, no matter how hard they have to stretch, push, pull, or rationalize said passages in their teaching. Most times, they don’t even agree with each other”

I agree with your view … and the proprietary wrangling and debating that goes on is disgusting to say the least … this behavior makes a mockery of the Lord’s Word in front of those who look on

However the tag "dispensationalists’ is misapplied and so is the “fundamentalists” depiction … they apply these terms to themselves, but then go off on the wrong road singing their own song … I define the leaders as “pied pipers” [the biblical terms: false teaches and false prophets]

The biblical Christian is “fundamental” in the study and also recognizes a specific “framework” that outlines the Lord’s points of reference like the “dispensation of the age of His grace” related to salvation

Most reformer/re-construction movements are apostate … and the list is a long one

I call these replacement theologists who have acquired Israel’s position in the prophetic scriptures for their own proprietary ambitions

Examples are Martin Luther and Ellen G. White of the SDA … both claimed that the Lord was finished with His nation of Israel … both were virulently anti-Semitic

And most all of the same movements today declare that it is the RCC who is at the core of apostate Christianity which will produce the “antichrist”

And most of these today are in ignorance about this off course idea because the very prophetic scriptures that they claim to understand put the Muslims of the Middle East squarely in God’s cross hairs. … not Europe, not the Pope, not the RCC

In fact Rome and the related subjects are not even in the scope of the visions of Bible prophets … these are just speculated in … inserted if you will

There is nothing recorded in the visions of events upon the earth between the ending of the 69th week decreed for Israel … and the beginning of the 70th still pending

The Lord was cut off just at the ending of the 69th, and His coming intervention to bring His hour [time] of trial and judgment upon an unbelieving world is still pending at this time

So the prophets record nothing about the time lapse between the 69th and the 70th

The protestant replacement theologist fills this breach with all sorts of speculation and diverse dogmas to support their folly

This behavior has been rampant over the centuries and one needs to be aware of this today … many of the movements contain the seeds of deception which can be extremely detrimental to the memberships of those that follow

With all due respect to Time Watcher, the one thing this thread illustrates is a disproportionate focus, or even obsession with the end times among many non-Catholics.

Hallmarks include knowing where the anti-Christ will come from, an exclusive understanding of scriptural prophecy (in spite of 2 Peter 1:20), and a willingness to point out how everyone else is wrong. Many seem to be triangulating their position with regard to Israel so that if the end times do come, they can be found by our Lord to be in the right place, have the right beliefs and in the right group.

To focus on the end times to such a degree shows a fundamental lack of trust in God who told us very plainly to leave history in his hands and clothe ourselves as the lilies in the field. Lilies always represented purity and so Jesus is telling us to focus on the state of our souls so that when the end does come, our souls can be found pleasing to God.

-Tim-

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