Israel/Samaria and Protestantism - Deja Vu all over again?!?


#1

As I study ancient Israel in the Old Testament, I’m struck by some things.

  1. Israel was a united country, although there was strife between the 10 northern tribes and King Solomon.
  2. Israel broke away and formed it’s own country, separate from Judah
  3. Israel changed it’s temple worship away from Jerusalem and created a much less pure temple worship (in Dan and Bethel).
  4. The tribes of Israel were then watered down through inter-marriage with other countries’ refugees, becoming a shadow of the true Jewish blood they once had.
  5. Even with all this “falling away” from the Old Covenant, Jesus found some faithful Samaritans who were healed and saved.

And then I balance this with a brief and general summary of Christianity.

  1. There was One Church for over a 1000 years, with some strife from time to time, mainly between the Pope and differing factions.
  2. Then some church members broke away and formed their own religions.
  3. Protestants changed their Sunday Liturgy, often removing the altar and the Sacrifice, the central part of the Catholic Liturgy, as well as the rest of the Sacraments.
  4. The various Protestant religions then began to splinter even further upon themselves, where most of them aren’t even recognizable by any religion of the first 1600 or so years.
  5. Through all of this, there are Christians that will be judged Righteous by God and brought into Salvation.

And yet, I’m held by yet another hope of a case of deja vu. That, just as God promised He would re-unite Israel, I pray that God will re-unite Christians to be the one True Church that the Devil loathes so much!

Your thoughts are welcome!

John


#2

Very insightful.


#3

But sad…


#4

In the proximate end, maybe, but not in the ultimate end. Everything will glorify God, whether it be by showing His mercy or by magnifying His justice by people being in Hell, in the end, there is no regret in Heaven, only hymns of rejoicing over what He has done. I take great consolation and solace in the fact that at the final judgment all will be revealed and all the wickedness and injustices of this world must be accounted for. And, that all the just people will be rewarded accordingly.


#5

Good insights, John.

I would supplement with this:

Similarities between OT and NT Kingdom Schisms:

Yes, they will most likely be reunited. Such is the prophecy of the General Mystics. HEnce, we are not living in the times of the very end, but the intermediate darkness of the Church, like the time preceding the exile in the OT.

The East, like the OT North, has already had ITS butt whipped. We, the West (“the South”) are next. But the butt whipping is just the exile, not the times of Antichrist. For, notice, the Antichrist of the OT doesn’t come until the final, third great trial, the Maccabees (Antiochus).

In the end, you are stumbling upon a smaller chunk of a larger fulfillment: The entire spiritual history of the Jews is a prefiguring of what the CHurch goes through, all of which are just macro examples of what the saint goes through: the purgative, the illuminative, the unitive.

Purgation: (Egypt, Pagan Rome)

Deliverance and** Illumination**: (the Exodus and prophets’ development of the Law, Catholicism’s Triumph over paganism and doctrinal development)

The Dark Night of the Soul: (pre-Exile Jewish Apostasy, modern MINOR secular apostasy)

The Vindication of the Illumination, Unitive Phase (the Exile vindicates the Prophets and the Jews are restored to the homeland and live in relative peace for a great era, the Minor Chastisement will vindicate Catholic doctrine by exposing the various spiritual darknesses for what they are and all foreign SPIRITUAL lands shall come home to Rome, and a great era of Catholic peace shall be granted)

Martyrdom and the “Next Age”: (The Jews pass through the ultimate persecution of the OT Antichrist Antiochus then after a while Christ comes the FIRST Time, the Church passes through the NT Antichrist and Tribulation and Christ comes the Second Time.)

Hence, the restoration of the Jews to the holy land after the OT exile is a prefiguremnt of the return of the Gentiles from all the spiritula foreign lands to the homeland of the Catholic Church.

:slight_smile:


#6

I’m not sure if the Greek Orthodox Schism is the similarity or the Protestant Reformation, and the key is the building of the temples in Dan and Bethel and then became worship at Mt. Garyzim (sic). This was a false worship, designed to keep the Israelite pilgrims away from the true Temple worship in Jerusalem.

The Church recognizes that our Orthodox brothers are still sharing in the Sacraments, even at the Mass. Isn’t this correct? There is much similarity between the Orthodox Church in the 1200’s and the Church today. This is not representative of Samaria.

But our Protestant brothers, especially those who have removed all semblance of the Sacrifice at the Mass more closely resemble what became of the 10 northern tribes as they “evolved” into Samaria.


#7

Though I have thought this before as well, keep in mind this is something protestants might say about catholics as well…

In Christ


#8

True, but I believe they are saying that based on a false belief of the early church.

If one looks at the changes in the Protestant form of worship in the last 200 years (heck, in the last 20 years) you’d see that it’s the Catholic worship that has remained the most true to the Early Church teachings.

Now, bear in mind, I’m not trying to lump all Protestants together, though it may look like it. I detest thinking that all Non-Catholic Christians are the same. The Anglicans and variious other religions haven’t changed their teachings and Liturgy quite as much as others, just as many Jews of the Diaspora clung to their Covenant oaths.


#9

Few will follow. One visionary said that the faith will be so low in parts of world that you would think we were living in pagan Rome. I think our Lord is going to give us BIG KICK IN THE REAR. A REAL BIG ONE. Our sins of abortion, homosexuality are sins that CRY TO HEAVEN. The people in the age of peace will wonder what exactly it was our generation was smoking!


#10

Maybe, there can be a sense in which both primary NT forms of division (schism, heresy) are in different details of the OT scenario. Hence, the analogy of North and South and most of the OT tribes pulling away is quite adequately fulfilled in the East/West Schism and that just as there were 12 tribes, so there were twelve apostles.

But that the other details of the distorted worship and decay have a more proper fulfillment in Protestantism.

So I would say, there is no reason to say it is an EITHER OR (schism/heresy) but rather BOTH AND. What do you think, NotWorthy?


#11

All are the consequence of sin, but one thing remains. God will always been victorious in the end, and I believe before He comes again, the Church will be One Church.


#12

That would be baal (sun) and grove (tree) worship. Both of which can be found in RC and Protestant churches today.


#13

Wow, if we worship trees and the sun in the Catholic Church, my RCIA instructors were neglectful in not teaching me so… :rolleyes:


#14

We tend not to in the Protestant Church, as well ;).

There is a sense in which this kind of worship does exist, though, I think. A large number of people believe only science, and they place it above religion. For them, I think that that is a form of nature-worship. It is true that some people of virtually any religion or denomination fall into this trap. That isn’t found only in the Catholic and Protestant Churches.


#15

As a former Protestant, I can confim this :slight_smile:

That’s true, but I suspect that’s not what tabcom has in mind. Further, I know of *no *legitimately Christian community whose doctrines permit nature-worship.


#16

I’m afraid I did not make myself as clear as I should have in my prior post. That is, metaphorically speaking, sun and tree worship today represents the same values as in ancient Israel.


#17

Okay, that sounds pretty similar to what I was saying.

Neither do I.


#18

And this is clearer? :hmmm:


#19

From where did the first tree worship begin? I believe it began in Gen 2:16.

Genesis 2:16 17 – of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat - But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shall not eat of it.

And what was the ‘real power’ that was promised to Eve?

Genesis 3:5
"For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

I believe the tree metaphorically represents the tree in the garden.
When one bows down to accept a gift from the tree, they are doing three things: they want that present with their name on it (lust of the eye). After opening the gift and seeing that they received what they wished for (lust of the flesh), it makes them feel good (pride of life).

1 John 2:15-17

15
Do not love the world or the things of the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16
For all that is in the world, sensual lust, enticement for the eyes, and pride life, is not from the Father but is from the world.
17
Yet the world and its enticement are passing away. But whoever does the will of God remains forever.


#20

Tab,

I believe you are inserting “tree worship” into this passage. Did Adam and Eve eat the fruit because of the tree? Or because of the Serpent?

The Serpent introduced (or appealed to) these three vices - lust, pride, and envy - into the world.

Notice, God never indicates that the Man and Woman had worshiped a false god. When the Israelites do this later on, during Calf-Gate, God made it rather clear that this was the root of their sin.


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