It IS possible for a homosexual Christian to be a TRUE Christian!


#1

:nunchuk::nunchuk:Here is the LIGHT side of the truth!:nunchuk::nunchuk:

Christ’s church recognizes homosexuality as a cross, another way to reach Heaven!

The snippets below are proofs that the Vatican *officially *approves of homosexuals being full-pledged members of the Christian community.

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19861001_homosexual-persons_en.html
LETTER TO THE BISHOPS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
ON THE PASTORAL CARE OF HOMOSEXUAL PERSONS

12
Fundamentally, homosexuals are called to enact the will of God in their life by joining whatever difficulties they experience in virtue of their condition to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross. For the believer, that cross is a fruitful sacrifice which brings about life and redemption. While any call to carry the cross or to understand a Christian’s suffering in this way will predictably be met with bitter ridicule by some, it should be remembered that this is the way to eternal life for all who follow Christ.

it is none other than the teaching of Paul the Apostle to the Galatians when he says that the Spirit produces in the lives of the faithful “love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, trustfulness, gentleness and self-control” (5:22) and further (v. 24), “You cannot belong to Christ unless you crucify all self-indulgent passions.”

It is easily misunderstood, however, if it is merely seen as a useless effort at self-denial. The Cross is a denial of self, but in service to the will of God himself who makes life come from death and empowers those who trust in him to practice virtue, not vice.

To celebrate the Paschal Mystery, let that Mystery become imprinted in the fabric of daily life. Refusing to sacrifice one’s own will in obedience to the will of the Lord is to prevent salvation. Just as the Cross was central to the expression of God’s redemptive love for us in Jesus, so the conformity of the self-denial of homosexual men and women with the sacrifice of the Lord will develop for them a source of self-giving which will save them from a way of life which constantly threatens to destroy them.

Homosexuals, as everyone, are called to a chaste life. As they dedicate their lives to understanding the nature of God’s personal call to them, they will be able to celebrate the Sacrament of Penance more faithfully and receive the Lord’s grace so freely offered there in order to convert their lives more fully to his Way.

:knight1:
The above paragraphs state that Christians with homosexual tendencies are to crucify these tendencies on the cross, in concordance with Christ, who bore everyone’s sins.

Does this make it harder for homosexual Christians to be true Christians? NOPE! Even though heterosexuals may not be tempted to have sexual intercourse with a member of their own gender, (THE HORROR!!!) they still have their own sexual impurities to conquer, like rape!

Everyone, not just homosexuals, must fight for eternal life: the above paragraphs do not indicate that it is harder for homosexual Christians to carry their crosses!

15 third paragraph
An authentic pastoral programme will assist homosexual persons at all levels of the spiritual life: through the sacraments, and in particular through the frequent and sincere use of the sacrament of Reconciliation, through prayer, witness, counsel and individual care. In this way, the Christian community can come to recognize its own call to assist its brethren without deluding them or isolating them.

:knight1:
A homosexual Christian does not need to repent for having homosexual tendencies! Rather, he/she must repent for any personal sins that he/she commits!!

Don’t deny the truths of whatever disorders you have been born with, but accept them with humility, and use them for God’s glory in some way.

16
From this approach there are numerous advantages to be gained, one of which is realizing that a homosexual, as every human being, deeply needs to be nourished at many different levels simultaneously.

The human being, made God’s image and likeness, can hardly be adequately described by a reductionist reference to his or her sexual orientation. **Everyone **living on Earth has personal problems, but challenges to growth and gifts as well. Today, the Church provides a badly needed context for the care of humans when they refuse to consider the person as a “heterosexual” or a “homosexual” and insist that every person has a unique Identity: the creature of God, and by grace, his child and heir to eternal life.

:knight1:
A Christian who feels scorn toward persons who are members of the LGBT community is being unloving. We must take great care not to harass others simply because of their sinful natures, for all are tainted with sin.


#2

:nunchuk::nunchuk:Scriptural Insight:nunchuk::nunchuk:

You were born homosexual. Does that mean you may freely indulge in homosexual activities, since that is “just the way you are”?

NOPE!!!
catholic.com/quickquestions/what-are-the-bible-passages-that-deal-with-homosexuality

Romans 1:26–27
God gave them up to evil desires. Women gave up natural relations for unnatural, and Men gave up natural relations with women, men committing shameless acts with men and the due penalty for their error.

Notice the wording of this bible verse! These fools acted on their passions by yielding to the temptations, but experiencing these temptations is not by itself sinful, just resist them!

1 Corinthians 6:9-10
The unrighteous won’t inherit the kingdom. Neither the immoral, idolater, adulterer, sexual pervert, thief, drunkard, reviler, or robber will win the kingdom of God.

There is a profound *difference *between feeling the urge to rob your neighbor’s house, and resisting it, and feeling the urge to rob your neighbor’s house, and yielding to it!

This bible doesn’t condemn the promptings of homosexual behavior, but the *actions *which result from them!

Push the thoughts away!

It IS possible for a homosexual Christian to be a TRUE Christian!

Hopefully this would clear up the **myths **which some believe about our Church!


#3

What is the point here with such a huge amount of discourse?
This is nothing new and could have been covered in one post with three paragraphs:

CCC 2357 thru 2359 (click thru)

Chastity and homosexuality

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they **can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection. **

CCC2359 answers the Question: “It IS possible for a homosexual Christian to be a TRUE Christian!!!”
The answer is, Yes.
The path to that end isn’t any easier than for those that do not suffer from same sex attraction… IMHO, dealing with the sexulization of the human body by the current cultural values makes it even harder for all of us dealing with lust of any form.


#4

I completely agree that it is possible! It’s possible for anyone to be a true, holy, and orthodox Catholic Christian! :slight_smile:

That said, while I don’t know of any, it is possible that some of the saints struggled with same sex attraction. If they did, I don’t think it is publicized though.


#5

What is the point in having a Vatican document on the pastoral care of homosexual persons? Maybe they should have just told people to read CCC 2358.

If the Vatican can post longer explanations of these issues, I think we can follow suit.

Does that seem reasonable?


#6

What is a “homosexual Christian”?
What is a “true Christian”?
I’m asking in good faith.


#7

It certainly is reasonable for the Church to publish such documents; however, what I am asking here is what is Faxero point?

Faxero seems to be saying that

“The snippets below are proofs that the Vatican officially approves of homosexuals being full-pledged members of the Christian community.”

is a new position, which is is not, and has not been a “new” position - even if the care of HSP hasn’t been the best by the Church in the past.


#8

Of course its possible. If being sin free is a requirement to be a Christian (true or otherwise), then there are none.


#9

Was this in dispute?


#10

Am I a “heterosexual Christian”?
Am I a “true Christian”?

No, I am a Christian.
And I am not always very true. I sin a lot.


#11

I think he is just excited that he found some documents pointing out the Church’s merciful attitude toward homosexual persons, and he wants to promote those so that others can move from a condemnatory stance to a merciful stance, or to prove that the Church doesn’t have a condemnatory stance toward homosexual persons.

By the way, in case my above paragraph makes me sound like I think it is “hateful” to condemn homosexual actions, I don’t think that. And I have no idea whether Faxero thinks that or not. I’m just saying what I think he meant.

Faxero seems to be saying that

[quote]“The snippets below are proofs that the Vatican officially approves of homosexuals being full-pledged members of the Christian community.”

is a new position
[/quote]

That’s not the impression I got. shrug.


#12

That is not the Vatican’s approval, its still the same love the sinner not the Sin. In your haste to approve your actions you might have twisted what Canon Law says.

Lev. 18:22
•‘You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination." (NASB)
•“You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.” (ESV, NKJV)

Clearly, the Old Testament condemns homosexuality. What else does it mean when it says “you shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female”? The term “lie with” here refers to sexual intercourse in the phrase “lie with a male as one lies with a female.” It is an abomination
:eek:


#13

The teaching of the Church is indisputable and reasonable, and deeply moving. The question always comes though: “what does this mean for me?” It’s a question that everyone asks when they come to faith.

It’s easy to simply read a paragraph in the Catechism and quietly resign yourself to it. It’s easy to say “okay I’m a child of God, I’m going to join my struggles with the sacrifice of Christ. I’m an heir to eternal life. All this great stuff applies to me. Just follow the Commandments.” Easy, right?

The hard part is the “…in some way” part. What way? A homosexual person can go to mass every week and still feel all alone. They can go to confession every week and still feel alone. They can even join a prayer group or something and still have to go home at the end where they have no one but their own thoughts to contend with day in and day out. They can do all kinds of things and still feel like they’re living their lives in the absence of something rather than “in” something… like they’re just stumbling around trying to avoid the thousand-and-one sexual pitfalls of life but not particularly feel like they’re “going” anywhere. Sometimes it seems the only thing the Church says they CAN do is “suffer” and “struggle” and eventually die alone at the end of all that suffering and struggle. Now THAT is a cross! THAT is hard to “say yes!” to.

The hard part is the daily suffering of isolation and loneliness, depression and directionlessness that results. Yes, it’s great that the 1001 pitfalls of the sexual life are clearly defined, that everything we need to “stay away from” is clearly outlined… but what is allowed? What can homosexuals do other than suffer for their faith and join their suffering to Christ? Is there any chance of being happy here?

I must admit I’m someone who struggles with a disordered sexuality (pedophilia), and I go to confession every week and I go to mass at least twice a week, and I suffer. I’m in tears at least a few times a week and have even prayed for death on occasion only to find myself back in Confession confessing to having prayed for death. It’s great to be absolved for wanting to die, but it’s not so great to have to live with it, especially when the Chuch teaches you all the things to stay away from but leaves you on your own when it comes to what you can actually DO in life.

I’m sorry for whining and complaining. None of my complaints are enough to persuade me away from Christ or His Church, because I believe that in some way Christ is the only HOPE I have in this world. The only “lover” I’ll ever have.


#14

Some unsavoury passages here and rather unenlightened.


#15

Good question. Why not just refer to people as “Christian?”


#16

Because there are these things called adjectives. Sometimes people use them. :yup:


#17

:yup:

:mad: Ha!

I never said that we should embrace homosexuality in a way where we don’t mind practicing it, but to embrace it as a cross!

z_0101 is right in saying that this is old school news, but there are Christians like you who think otherwise, hence the reference to the official document, the document that states very clearly that homosexuals may be fully united with Christ!!

:confused: In my haste to approve my own actions??? Hang on, I’m a heterosexual, not a homosexual!! Don’t put words in my mouth, CelticMaiden, daughter of Japheth!

:thumbsup: That’s the point of the opening post!!

16
From this approach there are numerous advantages to be gained, one of which is realizing that a homosexual, as every human being, deeply needs to be nourished at many different levels simultaneously.

The human being, made God’s image and likeness, can hardly be adequately described by a reductionist reference to his or her sexual orientation. Everyone living on Earth has personal problems, but challenges to growth and gifts as well. Today, the Church provides a badly needed context for the care of humans when they refuse to consider the person as a “heterosexual” or a “homosexual” and insist that every person has a unique Identity: the creature of God, and by grace, his child and heir to eternal life.

Hopefully in the future, thousands of years from now, some depressed christian will conveniently find this thread, and be relieved that their own religion isn’t bigoted.

Now get out of this thread! Nothing more to discuss here!


#18

:thumbsup:


#19

If Christ can bless a Samaritan serial adulteress I’m sure He can embrace anybody.:wink:


#20

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