It just makes no sense


#1

I started this topic in the sacraments section, but since this is a busy spot, I thought I’d post here too. Hope that is okay. I really need help with this.

It just makes no sense.
[list]
*]2 married non-Christians are not fornicating, married by the State
*]2 married Protestants are not fornicating married in a Christian Church
*]1 Catholic and 1 Protestant are fornicating if not married with/by a Priest, but in a Christian church.
[/list]It is part of this issue that is keeping me from reverting and my husband offended that his Church wasn’t “good enough”. It makes me very sad.


#2

I’m not up on why Protestant/Catholics marriages aren’t licit in the Church except because it isn’t a sacramental union.

The Church doesn’t expect non-Catholics to come to the Church for a sacracmental exchanging of vows, but it does expect Catholics who marry non-Catholics to have a dispensation and a priest or deacon there to witness the couple’s vows, so making the vows sacramental in the eyes of the Church.

All you need do it talk to your local priest to get the ball rolling for a dispensation and to arrange to have him or a deacon present for an exchange of your wedding vows.


#3

[quote=gracelife]I started this topic in the sacraments section, but since this is a busy spot, I thought I’d post here too. Hope that is okay. I really need help with this.

It just makes no sense.
[list]
*]2 married non-Christians are not fornicating, married by the State
*]2 married Protestants are not fornicating married in a Christian Church
*]
[/quote]

[/list]Objectively, they are fornicating. However only God can judge whether or not they are invincibly ignorant to the truth that sacramental marriage is necessary.


#4

[quote=gracelife]I started this topic in the sacraments section, but since this is a busy spot, I thought I’d post here too. Hope that is okay. I really need help with this.

It just makes no sense.
[list]
*]2 married non-Christians are not fornicating, married by the State
*]2 married Protestants are not fornicating married in a Christian Church
*]1 Catholic and 1 Protestant are fornicating if not married with/by a Priest, but in a Christian church.
[/list]It is part of this issue that is keeping me from reverting and my husband offended that his Church wasn’t “good enough”. It makes me very sad.
[/quote]

If the Catholic elected to marry outside the Church without obtaining the appropriate waiver, he defected from the discipline of the Church and has disparaged the Sacrament of Holy Matrimony.

My spouse was just such a Catholic, and when told we would have to re-marry, nearly blew a gasket. To me, it was clear as gin. But then, we converts have a bias toward seeing things through the eyes of the Church.


#5

2 married non-Christians are not fornicating, married by the State
2 married Protestants are not fornicating married in a Christian Church

Does the RC Catechism address this directly or is that an opinion?


#6

Because the Catholic should know better.

To whom much is given, much will be expected.


#7

[quote=gracelife]2 married non-Christians are not fornicating, married by the State
2 married Protestants are not fornicating married in a Christian Church

Does the RC Catechism address this directly or is that an opinion?
[/quote]

The Cathechism would say that sex outside marriage is fornication and that marriage is a sacrament.

It’s similar to the unbaptized that don’t know baptism is necessary. They may still be saved.


#8

[quote=Trelow]Because the Catholic should know better.

To whom much is given, much will be expected.
[/quote]

In this case 15 years ago, the Catholic did not know better.
(Thanks to poor 70-80’s catechesis.) Now thanks to Catholic Answers and Relevant Radio, this Protestant sees the Catholic view and wonders, what now!?


#9

Why does the Catholic church accept the Trinitarian baptism in another Christian church (one baptism, I understand), but not the marriage which was performed in a Christian church?

Why one sacrament and not the other?


#10

Its the committment between the couple and God that matters. Protestants view their weddings AND RC weddings with equal validity.


#11

You guys need to ask Father Serpa about this because I think you are incorrect.

I believe that trinitarian marriage outside the Catholic faith is considered a valid marriage - my husband had been married before as a Congregationalist. We were required to apply for an annulment of that marriage before we could receive the sacrament from the Catholic Church. That indicates to me that the Church regards it as valid.

This is a subject that can be very confusing. It’s covered in Canon Law but you know what? I need to have someone trained in that to guide me. I got married back in 1987 and my parish priest guided us in this endeavor.

I have to tell you my personal opinion on this: don’t laugh! I think the state/government should stay the heck out of marriage all together. I think the United States should adopt the same kind of system practiced in France (unless that has changed). If you want to get “married” you go to your church and you get “married”. If you want to REGISTER that marriage as a civil union you go to the government and do so.

It’s probably splitting hairs and my training in Rhetoric is getting the better of me, but I just think it would help a whole lot if the sacrament of marriage remained a church rite and the government just earned money from issuing civil union licenses.

Whaddya say we post the question to Father Serpa on this site?


#12

[quote=gracelife]Why does the Catholic church accept the Trinitarian baptism in another Christian church (one baptism, I understand), but not the marriage which was performed in a Christian church?

Why one sacrament and not the other?
[/quote]

Perhaps because, depending on the demonination, most Protestants don’t even consider marriage a Sacrament.


#13

[quote=gracelife]In this case 15 years ago, the Catholic did not know better.
(Thanks to poor 70-80’s catechesis.) Now thanks to Catholic Answers and Relevant Radio, this Protestant sees the Catholic view and wonders, what now!?
[/quote]

Talk with your priest. I If you were away from the Chruch at the time you would only have to get it convalidated, I think.


#14

Leslie, I just want the correct answer. I don’t want to go to one priest (one priest did tell me, it’s okay, you didn’t know, you can go to communion) and another priest say (no, I can’t even absolve you in confession!) I want the truth.

I am so weary of this. I did post

“Why does the Catholic church accept the Trinitarian baptism in another Christian church (one baptism, I understand), but not the marriage which was performed in a Christian church?
Why one sacrament and not the other?”

to the Ask an Apologist section, but not the issue of…

2 married non-Christians are not fornicating, married by the State
2 married Protestants are not fornicating married in a Christian Church
1 Catholic and 1 Protestant are fornicating if not married with/by a Priest, but in a Christian church.


#15

Yes, there was a change somewhere in 1983, I believe. You might be able to have a convalidation or a “radical sanation”. You might also want to go over to the EWTN forums (the one you want is “Canon Law”, and ask a canon lawyer specifically about your case. They are very thorough and usually fairly quick to answer–within a couple of days mostly.)


#16

Perhaps because, depending on the demonination, most Protestants don’t even consider marriage a Sacrament.

Ding ding ding! We have a winner! For a Sacrament to be valid, it must be done with the proper intent. Baptisms are considered Sacramental almost universally, so the Church recognizes that the proper intent was present. Marriages, however, are not recognized as a Sacrament in most Protestant denominations, so the proper intent is impossible.

Now for people who are completely outside of the Church, the Church gives the benefit of the doubt, because non-Catholics can’t be expected to go to the Catholic Church for a Sacramental marriage. Since you were Catholic, however, you had an obligation to go to the Church for the Sacrament, and that obligation wasn’t fulfilled. In other words, it has nothing to do with your husband’s church not being good enough, it has everything to do with you, as a Catholic, dodging (unintentionally) the proper Sacrament. The Church doesn’t require that you go through the full marriage, but rather that you get a special validation of your marriage to demonstrate that you, as a Catholic, DO accept the Sacramentality of Marriage, which you were obligated to accept before but were absent from the Church.

It’s really not a big thing, and once things are convalidated I don’t think you’d have anything to confess given your ignorance of the rules at the time. You haven’t been commiting any mortal sins, though how you choose to behave NOW might be considered sinful, depending. You won’t have to go through the whole marriage ceremony again, just a small thing to ensure that you accept the Sacrament of Marriage (which Protestants don’t accept). Others more knowledgable will be able to give you more info. Good luck and God bless!


#17

Isn’t it more important that the couple views the marriage as a sacrament?


#18

Isn’t it more important that the couple views the marriage as a sacrament?

Yes, but why would two non-Catholics consider it a Sacrament? Why would a Catholic and a non-Catholic, who are being married in a setting that does not recognize the Sacrament, consider it a Sacrament? This is why convalidation is so very important: it settles the issue once and for all, and the Church can rest comfortably that the Sacrament is indeed being honored and respected.

Remember, Sacraments are like the hand of God reaching into our world and making a very real change in circumstances. They are not something to be taken lightly, and the Church likes to make certain that the direct actions of God are being properly respected.


#19

Another thing that makes no sense:
[list]
*]2 married non-Christians are not fornicating, married by the State and possibly a non-Christian church.
*]Later, one of the non-Christians converts to Catholicism. NOW he is considered to be fornicating.
[/list]What the h-ll?


#20

To whom much is given, much is expected.

(and consequently to whom little is given less is expected.)

Catholics are given the full truth and are expected to follow it. Non Catholics may not know this full truth and thus are not held by the same standards in this regard.


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