It seems Sola Scriptura in impractical in today's society


#1

My friends and I grow tired of fundamentalists yelling Bible verses in our faces. But get this, it’s not because of Catholicism, it’s because of:

  1. The things we wear.
  2. The things we watch.
  3. The games we play.
  4. The music we listen to.
  5. The things we write/draw/paint.
  6. The books we read.
  7. Our hobbies.

And they try to prove their points by quoting all kinds of verses saying how we should be more like this, how are lifestyle should be dictated by the Bible (the KJV no less), how this and that are demonic, how the Bible should be followed literally word for word blah blah blah…

What’s the deal with these people? It’s almost as if they want everyone to live like the Quakers or Puritans or something. I mean my friends and I are pretty much Catholic when it comes to morality and stuff but petty things like our hobbies?

What are your thoughts?


#2

The Quakers are pretty religiously liberal for the most part. Don’t even have to be Christian.

My main problem with SS is the inherent logical fallacies in it.


#3

I think “the deal” is that there has always been a strong thread of gnosticism running through American Evangelicalism & Fundamentalism, ever since the Puritan days. The spirit is good, the flesh is evil.

Of course, that view doesn’t easily deal with the fact that the most evil being in creation is pure spirit…


#4

The irony is that most of the folks you are talking about would say they believe Romans 3:27, 28

27 What occasion is there then for boasting? It is ruled out. On what principle, that of works? No, rather on the principle of faith.28 For we consider that a person is justified by faith apart from works of the law.

Sounds like works righteousness to me. :shrug:

Jon


#5

Sola Scripture, sola verse. the day they discover that verse, they go at it. even if it contradicts what they believe.

they found a verse, they get very excited about it.

i remember being on this evangelical church and the deacon discovered this verse: You are standing on Holy ground. man, oh man, this guy repeated this verse so many times. he would yell: take your sandals off you are standing here this is a holy ground. and the people would yell yes, alleluia. i am sure none of them new exactly what they were saying.

Lord, you have done great things for us. Lord, what have we done for you?


#6

Thanks for the correction, and yeah I’ve pretty seen how irrational so-called “bible believers” are. If that’s what it means to ‘believe and follow the Bible’ then it’s no wonder why atheists and agnostics think the Bible is full of fairytales.


#7

Which logical fallacies are you referring to?


#8

For starters, Holy Scriptures doesnt support sola scriptura.


#9

Let’s start with how you’re defining Sola Scriptura…and then determine where Scripture doesn’t support it.


#10

Well if you want my perspective, Sola Scriptura seems to be a belief where you put the Bible on the pedestal and treat it like it’s equal to God. I notice many of those who attacked me and my friends often do nothing but rip out verse after verse, saying that if anything is not supported by ‘scripture’ (which imo is actually just their interpretation of it) it should instantly be condemned and forbidden (and I’m not talking about Catholic doctrine here).

It seems to them, as long as they have a bible verse to support their attacks, they think what they’re saying is the same as to what God would say.


#11

Since our society is fast becoming illiterate:
amazon.com/Dumbest-Generation-Stupefies-Americans-Jeopardizes/dp/1585426393/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1215045836&sr=8-1
how will this affect ‘Bible believing’ Churches? Are we seeing the sunset of the Enlightenment (at least in the Western world)?

This is something I dealt with while still a Baptist pastor. Most of the congregations I encountered were filled with christians who could not read the KJVs that sat on their laps in church.


#12

I just happened to notice this quote and thought that I would add my two cents to it. I don’t live in the United States anymore and one reason is the constant attacks that I recieved from protestants. I know that the Church does not state definitively if this or that group of protestants are Christians or not except in the extreme cases of the mormons and the (incorrect spelling of God’s most Holy name) Witnesses but so very often when I would talk with protestants in the United States found that it was not very hard for me to get them to self exclude themselves out of Christianity. All I had to do was question their doctrines. They focas the attack so much on “Catholics believe this and it is wrong” that they hardly ever take the time to sit down and figure out what they themselves believe.

Conversations usually start out with them telling a lie about the Catholic Church with is easy to refute with simple evidence. So then the back track. I state what the Catholic Church actually believes and inform them that as a convert to Catholicism, this is specifically what I was taught, so then even the “but that isn’t what they really believe” arguement make no sense. They still want to be Anti-Catholic so they take the opposite possition in order to continue the arguement and prove me wrong but doing so requires them to believe something that excludes them from Christianity, like denying that Jesus is God.

On other occasions I simply have to ask them what they believe to begin with and keep the questions going until they slip up. I don’t allow them to use the “I will ask my pastor” bit because I will use their own arguements about “call no man father” and they trip up. They really are not ready to be Christians, not in the litteral sense, they just want to belong to the club that they are in.

On any given day in the United States I could get protestants to tell me that they believed any of the following:

That the Bible is God.
That God the Father is a separate God from God the Son.
That the Trinity is really an invention of the Catholic Church and that only God the Father is real.
That Jesus did not actually have a physical body.
That Jesus sinned and was forgiven by God.
That the Virgin Birth was not really a Virgin birth.
That Jesus had to die on the Cross and that if he did not actually die on the Cross but say on the way to Calvery, then his sacrifice would have been for nothing.
That the Blessed Virgin Mary was really a prostitute.
That the Simon bar Jonah was not really an Apostle of the Lord’s
That only the Bible in ENGLISH is really the Bible.
That one must read the entire bible in order to be a Christian.

Now, I probably could go on forever as the memories of so many conversations come back to me. However, I also know that if most protestants just sat down for a second and thought over the consequences of their actions and what they were saying, that they would not believe these things or say that they believe them. In my own opinion, really I do not believe that they really beleived these things but were just saying them. They didn’t really know what to believe because they were waiting for the Bible to come to life and tell them.

Sola scriptura requires one to know the Bible very well but the way that protestants learn the Bible, one verse or half verse at a time does not lead to this even if they do finish it, which 99% never will. They do not know the story, just one sentence of the story and they do not know what the next sentence is unless you tell them which Book-Chapter and verse it is. This is a very flawed way study anything, much less Sacred Scripture.

Oh, the laments in heaven over the fall of the protestants. So many good people who just let the prejudices and cultural biases get the better of them. Not willing to endage God on God’s terms they want to put God in a box and create theology that they think allows them to FORCE God into letting them into heaven. Here is what I think Protestants actually believe.

They worship the Bible. 35%
They worship their pastor 40%
They worship their conscience. 10%
They do not know that Prayer and Worship are two different things. 100%
They say that Jesus is the son of God but do not know what that means or why it is true.
They think that anyone can believe anything they want and still be a Christian, Catholics excepted of course.
They deny the existance of Hell.
They think that only Catholics are going to Hell.
Some preach that the death of a Catholic is pleasing to God and that if you want to please God… you get the idea…
They teach that you do not need water baptism
One group teaches that unless you study the bible using the specially blessed highlighter sold by them that you are not a Christian and will go to hell.
They teach that you do not have to wear special clothes to pray, but then sell “prayer clothes”.
They teach that the 66 book bible is “The one and only Word of God.”

I have yet to ever meet a protestant who actually worshipped God, or adored God or gave to God what God deserves. Most protestants teach that love is some uncontrollable action, and so only some will ever be able to love God and this love is not by choice. This is of course along with the other doctrines which I listed above, so anti-Christian that I dare say that the protestants who believe such things are NOT CHRISTIANS in the least. The Chinese language actually does not allow for the calling of protestants and Catholics as the same religion, so Catholics are called Christians and protestants are called “new age”.

Now most of you reading this will probably think that I just showed up to bash protestants. Not true. If you really want to have a discusion about Sola Scriptura then it is important for protestants to put their beliefs on the table to be examined. They shy away from this because they are afraid of being exposed. They do not want to give you what they believe until you are already in the group. All they really want is for you to leave Catholicism. They don’t care where you go, even out of Christianity, so long as you are no longer a Catholic, then they have done their job.

When I was young the only “christians” I knew of were protestants and just taking a small examination of their beliefs lead me to conclude that all of Christiantiy must be false. Every protestant group I studied was proven wrong by thier own doctrines. There were just too many logical falicies, inconsistancies and contradictions. A true religion will have no contradictions. This lead me away from Christianity into Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism and what not. Yet all of these also were also easily proved wrong with just a simple bit of logic. Then I found my way to the Catholic Church, the only religion that makes any sense at all and the only one that does not contradict itself, logic or God.

So what should we do if confronted by “bible toting” protestants. Question them. If they will not answer then you win and they still will not be saved but you will have your peace of mind. (attacking peace of mind is one of their prime methods, getting you to doubt about things that are not issues at all) Kindly tell them to stop worshipping the Bible long enought to read it with you. Question them about every aspect of their beliefs and say on the offensive. When they slip up, point out in Scripture where they are wrong. Be as kind and polite as you can but remember, they hate you and want to cause you spiritual death even if they do not know it, so stay on guarde. When enough of their own false doctrines have been shot down then they will either leave never to bother you again or stay so that you can begin to spoon feed them the truth one peice at a time. You will need an intellectually honest protestant to get this far. Most will just book out. They would rather believe the lie then actually have to … sacrifice… the sins they love so much. My favorite quote from Lord Jesus “STOP SINNING.” I myself fail so often in this and yet He did say it and He does expect it of us. It is high time that Catholics obey this and teach our protestants neighbors to do the same, either by word or example.


#13

the RCC only makes logical sense if you belive the stuff that cannot be proven and if you TRUST it.

anyway on SS

its rubbish because… drumroll please the RCC compiled the bible…

so protestants are using a volume complied by catholics (minus luthers modifications)

Until protestants can overcome that block I dont really deal with protestant religions. Also out of context quotes annoy me.

I think I get annoyed at the idiocy of it as opposed to anything else.


#14

Well, what you’re describing is certainly not the historic position of Sola Scripture.


#15

It would probably be useful if you told us what you think SS means, and why you believe it.


#16

That Scripture is the sole source of normative revelation in the post-apostolic era. It is the one final and authoritative norm of doctrine and practice. It is not a claim that Scripture is the only authority altogether. Other authorities (the Church, tradition, the creeds and confessions) are subordinate to Scripture and derived from it. Scripture, however, is the only inspired and inherently infallible norm, and therefore, is the final authority in any dispute.

The Church, and only the Church, is equipped to interpret Scripture. Scripture is the truth, and the Church is the pillar and ground of truth. There is a reciprocal relationship between the Spirit-inspired Word of God and the Spirit-indwelt people of God.

To assert that the Bible is the sole infallible authority, and that the Bible is the final and supreme norm, in no way rules out the necessity or reality of other secondary and penultimate authorities. The Church is one such subordinate authority. This was recognized both by the early Church, and the classical Reformers. The Church was established by Jesus Christ Himself and given authority by Him. Jesus gives the Church an authority of “binding and loosing” that is not given to every member of the Church individually.

It is only within the Church that we find Scripture interpreted rightly, and it is only within the Church that we find the gospel. As Martin Luther observed, “outside the Christian church (that is, where the gospel is not) there is no forgiveness.”

That would be a VERY short summary of the position to which confessional Lutherans hold, and many other Reformation era traditions (many Reformed churches, for example).


#17

It may or may not be helpful to add that in most of the discussions
here and elsewhere, sola scriptura is confused with the idea of solo scriptura, which rejects all secondary authorities - the Church, creeds, etc -and relies on scripture often through personal interpretation.
If Lutherans, for example, were solo scripturists, we would not use the ancient ecumenical creeds, would not quote or acknowledge the early church fathers in the confessions (Book of Concord), in fact would not have a confessional document at all.

Jon


#18

Amen, bro. Well said.


#19

So you realize the importance of the Church in guiding our understanding Scripture.

Does that mean you accept the interpretation of Scripture given in the Documents of Vatican II?


#20

Which documents from Vatican II do you mean? Just to clarify.


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