Italian women take legal action over graves of aborted children marked with mothers' names

Why call killing a human being anything but what it is?


Those terms are euphemisms, and could be used for mechanical processes. Surely forcibly ending the life of an unborn human is qualitatively different from forcibly ending a construction project or software program.

Also “forced birth” is absurd. Birth is a natural purpose of reproduction. It’s like saying that because we’re not allowed to punch people in the stomach so they throw up, it’s “forced nutrition” and denies us our digestive rights. [Give this analogy some thought.]


My doctor apologized in advance - he had to write spontaneous abortion on my medical records (even though it was a miscarriage).


I’m very sorry

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Because it’s bad activism, if you want to change someone’s mind, calling them a murderer is not going to work.

Here’s a non related example, vegans will frequently say ‘meat is murder’, and they do genuinely believe that to be true. However if someone comes up to you while you’re eating a burger screaming ‘meat is murder’ you’re likely to just order a steak to annoy them. However veganism is on the rise, why? Because as a collective they recognised that the old ways weren’t working, changing to cool Insta posts showing colourful food, extolling how healthy, and environmentally friendly the vegan diet is does work.

My point is much like the vegans calling pro-choicers murderers is not helping. You need to change up your activism because your old ways aren’t working, and sticking with them just makes your movement look out of touch with actual conditions on the ground.

Come on this is obvious, you are in favour of forcing women to carry pregnancies to term regardless of the risk to their physical or mental health or any other factors. If you are wanting women to carry to term unwanted pregnancies you are definitionally forcing them to give birth. Its not used as term (outside of being used as a snarl) because its fundamentally bad activism.

Would you day the same thing about lynchings?

Or is it only this type of murder where we have to be gentle with how we describe it?


Call it what you want, I’m done. Frankly you’re being obtuse and comparing apples and oranges. If you want to continue being an increasingly marginalised minority position arguing using bad faith tactics that are failing your cause then be my guest.

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Not to be forgotten in these arguments is the fact, infanticide is now part of the picture, the pro-abortion side has introduced infanticide into the issue. One may say they are not for that but we see what the progressives have wrought on our society, this is the slippery slope.

It is also legal for babies up to a year old with parental consent.”

So, we should not forget the total of what the pro-abortionists stand for.

In the US and the rates reflect similarities elsewhere, are much higher rates of abortions of children of cover.

Even funding abortions overseas, impoverished areas.

So, just as much as the so-called enlightened views of the progressives, we should also see them for carrying out what truly are racist policies against the very populations of people.

One may think “hey, I’m cool, talking about abortion as an atheist in a religious forum” but atheists out of Europe, like Agnostics are really pretty routine.

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There seem to be some serious charity and compassion issues here. This makes the pro-life movement look like all they care about is vengeance, no matter the harm to souls.


I was leaving all that up to Catholic posters to wrangle about. :wink:

I thought Catholics believed that good ends don’t justify bad actions but it’s obviously more up for debate than that.

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The face of virtue triumphant can be quite as ugly as the face of evil at times.

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I think it was Chesterton who said that the problems of this world are caused by virtues run amuck instead of vices.

Edit: It is Chesterton and this is what he said.

“The modern world is not evil; in some ways the modern world is far too good. It is full of wild and wasted virtues…The modern world is full of the old Christian virtues gone mad. The virtues are mad because they have been isolated from each other and are wandering alone.”


I call the doctors who kill the babies murderers, not the women. I understand that women in those situations often feel unduly pressured by life circumstance.

That being said, murder IS murder.

Veganism is a bad example. One can clearly prove that eating meat isn’t murder; on the other hand, one can clearly prove that killing a baby in the womb IS murder.

Forgive me if I don’t take your sole word for it.

No, we’re against the murder of human beings. There’s quite the difference.

No, we’re advocating for them not to kill a human being. There’s quite the difference.

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What’s increasingly marginalized? “Pro-choice” numbers have fallen since the 1990s, while “pro-life” has risen; but most people are somewhere in the middle and have been since the 1980s.

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And they will, combined with a bit of shouting about darned Europeans chucked in on top, actually combined with a lot of that.

The progressive agenda can not be separated ultimately in the USA at least, from infanticide, selling baby body parts as in organ harvesting, etc.

Good luck with the progressive meme, “oh, but I’m not for that”, don’t be but essentially, this is still a progressive agenda and hard to separate it out.

Gives them something to do, it’s nice for people to have a hobby. :smiley:

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Oh indeed.

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