Italy's crucifixes in classrooms 'violate rights'

STRASBOURG — Italy violates parents’ right to educate their children along secular lines by displaying crucifixes in classrooms, the European Court of Human Rights ruled on Tuesday.

The judgment sparked anger in Catholic Italy, with the country’s education minister attacking the decision, insisting the crucifix was a “symbol of our tradition”.

The Strasbourg court found that: “The compulsory display of a symbol of a given confession in premises used by the public authorities… restricted the right of parents to educate their children in conformity with their convictions.”

It also restricted the “right of children to believe or not to believe,” the seven judges ruling on the case said.

The case was brought by Soile Lautsi, who was also awarded 5,000 euros (7,400 dollars) in damages.

Read more: google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5iejOVUlg8NH34D1qZsy95WCXQwPQ

Does this mean they will not let crucifixions be on show in Catholic and or other Christian schools? I’m confused!

By tradition in Italy public schools have a crucifix in each classroom. Someone appealed all the way up to the European court to have have them removed. Members of the Italian political spectrum (including left wing) call the all issue non existent because it is not part of a specific religious teaching but part of the Italian secular tradition.

I find that just as troubling as the move by the EU to impose secularism on member states.

If we see the crucifix as a secular ‘tradition,’ we have serious internal issues.

No, it means that they won’t let crucifixes be shown in state schools. It said nothing about private religioius schools.

If you don’t want secular restrictions, don’t take secular funds.

About 10 years ago, I thought the EU was a good thing. Now I hate to say it, but the more I learn, the more I see shades of communism and fascism alike rearing their heads again on the European continent (in many small ways, they never really left). The EU may even be more dangerous, though, because rather than with guns and tanks, their version of atheistic secularism takes over quietly through the court systems and through coercion. Against the will of most of the citizens, Europe is now essentially one big centralized, socialistic “country” for lack of a better word, and the unique national traditions (religious AND secular) are in the process of deliberately being erased by what is an atheistic government with little interest in the will of the people. Europe is turning into a spiritual desert at a much faster rate than the United States - a good example to us of our fate if we continue to allow our Christian identity to be silenced.

news.bbc.co.uk/go/em/fr/-/2/hi/europe/8340411.stm

**The European Court of Human Rights has ruled against the use of crucifixes in classrooms in Italy.
Mrs Lautsi complained to the European court that her children had to attend a public school in northern Italy that had crucifixes in every room.
She was awarded 5,000 euros ($7,400; £4,500) in damages.
But many politicians in Italy have reacted angrily.

Yeesh! More reasons to pray.
**

Definitely more reasons to pray.

Interestingly, Italy’s largest newspaper, Corriere della Sera has an online poll which shows a virtual dead heat (at the moment) on whether the Court’s decision violates religious liberty.

**CRUCIFIXES: FINI, NO SECULAR NEGATION OF CHRISTIANITY
**

(AGI) - Rome, 3 Nov - "Of course we have to wait for the grounds of the sentence of the European Court of human rights, but until then I hope that it will not be seen as a confirmation of the secularity of institutions, which is something else than the negation of the role of Christianity in society and the Italian identity’’ said Italian Speaker of the House Gianfranco Fini, regarding the decision of the European Court of Human Rights on crucifixes in classrooms.

agi.it/italy/news/200911031452-pol-ren0017-crucifixes_fini_no_secular_negation_of_christianity

I find that strange, since the argument to keep it up is based on secular tradition, not religious liberty.

If half the poll respondents believe that the crucifixes are religious expression (as they’d have to be for this decision to “violate religious liberty”), then I think this speaks against the argument to keep them up.

Vatican’s fury as court bans crucifixes in Italian classrooms because they ‘breach religious rights of children’

A European court has banned crucifixes in Italian classrooms as they are a ‘breach of the religious rights of children’. Vatican officials were said to be ‘furious’ after the European Court of Human Rights made its landmark ruling today.

The ruling, which could force a Europe-wide review of the use of religious symbols in government-run schools, rejected arguments by Italy’s government that the crucifix was a national symbol of culture, history and identity, tolerance and secularism.

The court also ordered the Italian government to pay 5000 Euro moral damages to Soile Lautsi, the mother who had brought the complaint.

Read more: dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1224954/Vaticans-fury-court-bans-crucifixes-Italian-classroom-breach-religious-rights-children.html#ixzz0VpXfrnXO

It’s based on agreement or not with the Court’s ruling that the presence is a violation of the pupils’ religious liberty.

Soile Lautsi … was also awarded 5,000 euros (7,400 dollars) in damages.

How was she damaged? Is she a vampire? Did she melt?

She was awarded 5,000 euros ($7,400; £4,500) in damages.

What damages? Was she hurt? Was her child hurt? Did the crucifix attack her child?

Just one more way to eat up the PC system.

Hogwash!!!

**

Some conservatives have already complained about schools dropping nativity plays to avoid **upsetting Muslim children. **

** :rolleyes:

FYI - there’s already a thread started on this story:

forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=393528

Yes indeed & thank you. After I submited my reply, I browsed the rest of the forum and saw it.

Yes, it is a celebration for secular atheists, who always seek to make everything as they are.

I have no problem with other people being religious; I just don’t think it’s right for them to ask other people to subsidize their religion. We’re talking about public, taxpayer-funded schools here. If a student wants to wear a crucifix necklace or a hijab, fine by me. If they want to carry a rosary in their pocket, that’s fine too (though I might draw the line at a student carrying a kirpan in school).

What I object to is the idea of taking a public institution that exists for the benefit of all citizens and branding it with one religion’s emblem.

Here is what I see, 80% or more of the public in Italy are Christians. Therefore, the majority of public funds are coming from Christians. Most of the students in the school have no problem, whatsoever, with a crucifix on the wall. Along comes one student, who hates the crucifix, and wants it removed. Now, the public school has become something that exists for the benefit of this one person. Someone, or someones, now needs to spend whatever time/money/effort to go around to every school, every classroom, to remove crucifixes because of one student, and some off kilter idea that secularism benefits all.

It is of no benefit to anyone but atheists.

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