It's NOT in the Bible


#1

Since we can’t resurrect threads over one year old I am re-posting Church Militant’s thread from Apologetics from a couple years ago.
I want to hear from our new members as to this subject.

I would much appreciate it if someone one, (especially you who are n-Cs) would display and clarify for me just precisely where it is in the Word of God that it specifically states that everything that Christians believe and practice must be found within its pages.

This also is for some of you Catholics that come in here and all but demand to know where some Catholic teaching or practice is found in the Bible.

The reason I am posting this is because I have read the Bible (all 73 books of it!) many times and have yet to find anything that supports this idea. I have concluded that the Catholic Church is correct in teaching that the Bible does not say this and therefore it is error.

I want all of us Catholics to understand that this is a fundamental doctrinal error of some communities of n-C Christianity and so there is no reason to get distressed when someone comes at you with this stuff, because the fact of the matter is …it’s NOT in the Bible itself.


#2

That is Protestant stuff.
I agree with you 100%. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


#3

Sola Scriptura is a false doctrine


#4

Just a though, but sometimes one must fight fire with fire. In the case of disciples of the school of sola scriptura, quoting the Bible in response seems like a prudent counter. The words of our Lord would proof particularly useful. Successful apologists often apply this in the course of formal debate with sola scripturists, in much the same way the Lord Himself defended against ad hominem attacks of the elders, scribes and pharisees during his earthly ministry.

Blessed are you when they insult you and persecute you and utter every kind of evil against you falsely because of me. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward will be great in heaven.

Thus they persecuted the prophets who were before you. [Matthew 5:11-12]

Christ knew both the hearts of man and the ways of men. The latter haven’t changed much, or so it seems.


#5

(all 73 books of it!)

:confused:

The Church existed before The Bible. It consists of 2 testaments. That is what it is a testament, not a manual.


#6

[quote="JustaServant, post:1, topic:274719"]
Since we can't resurrect threads over one year old I am re-posting Church Militant's thread from Apologetics from a couple years ago.
I want to hear from our new members as to this subject.

[/quote]

ChurchMilitant is a good member.

I would much appreciate it if someone one, (especially you who are n-Cs) would display and clarify for me just precisely where it is in the Word of God that it specifically states that everything that Christians believe and practice must be found within its pages.

You see what you did there? :D


#7

I don't understand what you mean.

[quote="virtueseeking, post:5, topic:274719"]
:confused:

The Church existed before The Bible.

[/quote]

I get this.

It consists of 2 testaments.

That is what it is a testament, not a manual.

But that would leave room for error.


#8

Here’s a quote that at first lends itself to sola scriptura, though it’s easily dismantled:

2 Timothy 3:16-17. 16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

On the surface it looks like it says everything useful is in scripture.

A screwdriver is useful for working on a car, but isn’t the only tool you should use. (Unless it’s an old Beetle! LoL)


#9

I can’t agree more, most of the CC is tradition and man made men’s teaching. So to a Catholic its not just the Bible. But even the CC tries to line their teaching up with a verse or two from the bible , and might I add at their interpretation, so this is a mute thread isn’t it?


#10

it's hard to understand how 1500 years after christ a man comes a long and puts a spin on the catholic church book and says you don't understand your own book.
we need to take some of them books out. which within a few centuries leads to 40000 different versions of christanity claiming he was right.
how can anyone buy into that?


#11

virtueseeking Re: It's NOT in the Bible


Quote:
(all 73 books of it!)

Disregard this not comp savvy. Sorry:o

TexanKnight Re: It's NOT in the Bible


Sola Scriptura is a false doctrine

What he Said!!:thumbsup:


#12

Christ surely knew some things would have to be left to interpretation, so to speak, which evolved into Sacred Tradition. For this reason, He invested in teaching twelve disciples, Peter as the first among them, directly and constantly over the course of His earthly ministry. He prayed for the invocation of the Holy Spirit to bless and guide them after His glorious Ascension into Heaven, so they may become complete as Apostles in spreading the Word. A logical conclusion is that Christ understood that the Church was to work through the hearts and actions of man.

The four evangelists were not transcribers. They did not write down ever word uttered by our Lord in real time. And they did so many years after Christ’s Ascension, with Divine Inspiration. Yet, people came to know and believe before the four Gospels were written. How was this possible, if adherence to word alone is necessary for knowledge of the Lord (and thus for salvation)?


#13

[quote="Pfaffenhofen, post:2, topic:274719"]
That is Protestant stuff.
I agree with you 100%. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[/quote]

My husband,a convert of six years STILL falls back on that mindset.If we disc uss anything re Catholic doctrine,that he doesn't agree with,it's always" Show where it says that in the Bible.I find it very frustrating,however I have experienced that with other friends who are converts.I suppose it is difficult to overcome the Sola Scriptural belief:blush:shrug:


#14

The Church was formed before the the bible was even written. It was put together by the Church. The Torah was written and used before hand by the Jews, but the new testament (most commonly quoted by those who believe in Sola Scriptora) was written by about 90A.D.
So if you just believe in Sola Scriptora then your missing a very important part of the faith. For every book written there are things that are assumed that the reader knows. Like for example in a World War II book they assume you know where Germany and England are. In the bible the writers assume that the readers know curtain things. That’s where Tradition comes in. If we didn’t have that then we couldn’t understand many of the things that make Christ’s life, death, and Resurrection so spectacular.


#15

Respectfully, it is unclear how you reach that conclusion - it might be helpful if this assertion were somehow supported here.

Q: How was it that so many people came to believe before the four Gospels were written? Was their belief weak or false because there was no written Word at that time?

BTW and FWIW - We believe that Judgment is reserved to Christ alone. I therefore do not presume to judge those who come to know the Lord through a sola scriptura approach, for it is indeed written: “Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done.” [Rev. 22:12]

Yes, Catholics do know Sacred Scripture. It is taught and read every time we gather together to celebrate Mass. For those of us of Eastern tradition, Scripture comprises many of the most essential elements of the Liturgy, as well. Priests do not proclaim apostolic letters, encyclicals and the like during Mass - they proclaim the Good News!


#16

The Church did exist before the bible was fully written, but the Holy Spirit had a much more active role in those days, as the bible clearly states, to help everyone out. We don’t have the same spiritual gifts in the same quantity as the first century Christians did back then and I feel the reason was because they didn’t have the new testament to rely on.

We know they were temporary gifts.

1 Corinthians 13:8-10
Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away.
For we know in part and we prophesy in part; but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away.

I’m not going to use this post to argue for or against sola scriptura, but to simply say that Church tradition must always be harmonious with the written word. I don’t believe Catholics reject that notion that they should be in agreement. So I do take issue when a tradition is entirely unbiblical. Not to say that it’s outright sinful, but that it has no basis in scriptural authority.

The pharisees has a lot of traditions and rituals they used that weren’t necessarily sinful. Jesus called them on their hypocrisy, not their use of rituals necessarily. But the traditions they used didn’t profit them anything either since it was never mandated. At least that is my understand of the matter.


#17

So we no longer enjoy the gifts of the Holy Spirit? They were only temporary?

And how do we know this? was it written? or is that part of your tradition to believe this? :wink:


#18

Hey yours are right, I just get hot when I see these posts about how the CC is right about everything and protestants don't have the full truth. We all know the Church evolved, and well sometimes traditions that can't be undone are not a good thing. I don't know who the CC is anymore, its part jew and part christian I guess.


#19

ByzCathCantor:

I said we don't have "the same spiritual gifts."

I don't know anyone legitimate that speaks in tongues anyway. Do you? I did not say the Holy Spirit did not work in our lives, but the church described in the new testament had the gifts so prevalent that Paul had to discourage people from speaking in tongues out of turn and without interpretation lest they alienate visitors. This is not a circumstance we have to deal with today, I'm sure you'd agree.

1 Corinthians 14:23
Therefore if the whole church assembles together and all speak in tongues, and ungifted men or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are mad?

And it's not tradition to believe that. I already showed you where in the scripture it was recorded that those particular gifts were temporary. Unless you consider it a manner of tradition to adhere to what the bible teaches on the matter.


#20

[quote="Luvtosew, post:18, topic:274719"]
Hey yours are right, I just get hot when I see these posts about how the CC is right about everything and protestants don't have the full truth. We all know the Church evolved, and well sometimes traditions that can't be undone are not a good thing. I don't know who the CC is anymore, its part Jew and part Christian I guess.

[/quote]

It's Christianity with all the trimmings.


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