It's Official: Hindus Did Worship in Fatima


#1

Maybe it wasn’t so bad after all?


#2

Did I miss something?

“In the hope that all brothers understand that we desire and pray for the union which is possible between all christians, all believers, and all men, we also raise our prayer to Our Lady of Fatima, that she may strengthen our will for unity and deliver us from all spirit of dissension and controversy.”

Naprous


#3

[quote=DominvsVobiscvm]Maybe it wasn’t so bad after all?
[/quote]

I went to the site and read the statement, I do not see anything un-Catholic about letting others ask our Blessed Mother to help bring peace to the world. :bowdown2:


#4

Come on, we have all seen the photos from this service. The rector can say that no profanations of the altar of the Holy God were committed, but we have seen the pictures. This is like the Groucho Marx line in A Night at the Opera: “who are you going to believe, me or your own two eyes?”


#5

[quote=GrzeszDeL]Come on, we have all seen the photos from this service. The rector can say that no profanations of the altar of the Holy God were committed, but we have seen the pictures. This is like the Groucho Marx line in A Night at the Opera: “who are you going to believe, me or your own two eyes?”
[/quote]

I have not seen the pictures, are they available on the internet, if so would you be so kind as to point me to them?


#6

[quote=GrzeszDeL]Come on, we have all seen the photos from this service. The rector can say that no profanations of the altar of the Holy God were committed, but we have seen the pictures. This is like the Groucho Marx line in A Night at the Opera: “who are you going to believe, me or your own two eyes?”
[/quote]

I have seen the pictures also and all I saw was an Indian praying at the Altar. If he was praying to Mary, whats the problem?


#7

[quote=Lance]I have not seen the pictures, are they available on the internet, if so would you be so kind as to point me to them?
[/quote]

They can be found here.


#8

No one, and this is clearly stated in Canon law, and that means any Non Catholic, can pray at an concecrated altar. I know this is extreme to say, but I question the faithfulness and the intelligence of both the Bishop in charge of Fatmima(Thinkfully because of his age he will retire soon) and the shrine rector of Fatima. If I personally see non Catholics walking up to the altar of ANY parish to worship, I would stand in the way.


#9

[quote=metal1633]I have seen the pictures also and all I saw was an Indian praying at the Altar. If he was praying to Mary, whats the problem?
[/quote]

The Portugal News (May 22, 2004) story reporting this event quoted one of the Hindu participants explaining that the Virgin of Fatima is a goddess in her particular panoply of deities. In other words, the Hindus praying at Fatima were praying (in their own understanding) not to the Mother of God, but to a goddess. This is blasphemy.


#10

I do find the article and photos troubling because it appears that more than just a simple prayer was offered by the Hindu worshipper. Besides, it seems inappropriate that a pagan prayer be offered at the altar where the bread and wine is consecrated into the body and blood of Our Lord Jesus. Over the centuries, Christians have been martyred by siuch pagan believers and it is an insult to these martyrs that a consecrated altar be used for non-Catholic purposes. What also troubles me is the attitudes of the shrine rector, Msgr. Guerra and the bishop of Leiria-Fatima. Msgr. Guerra has made conflicting statements about events at the shrine and appears to be too defensive about his actions and attitudes. This appears to be another instance of well-intentioned hospitality degenerating into a possibly sacrilegious event. It is somewhat analogous to the Mass in South Africa where the officiating priest invited the non-Catholic President Clinton to receive the Eucharist. I just don’t see what these types of incidents do to further the cause of true ecumenism.


#11

For one thing - we Catholics do not worship the Blessed Virgin Mary, we honour her.

SO WHY SHOULD WE LET HINDUS WORSHIP HER LIKE A GODDESS?
It is against our beliefs and teachings!

For the same reason we do not let other Christians receive the Eucharist although they may desire it, THEIR BELIEF IS NOT THE SAME.

Ecumenism does not mean allowing others to interpret our religion in their own way. If they want to pray to the Blessed Virgin, fine! BUT teach them what we believe about her first.

They want to pray after this, fine! BUT NOT at the altar!

:mad:


#12

[quote=bob]For one thing - we Catholics do not worship the Blessed Virgin Mary, we honour her.

SO WHY SHOULD WE LET HINDUS WORSHIP HER LIKE A GODDESS?
It is against our beliefs and teachings!

For the same reason we do not let other Christians receive the Eucharist although they may desire it, THEIR BELIEF IS NOT THE SAME.

Ecumenism does not mean allowing others to interpret our religion in their own way. If they want to pray to the Blessed Virgin, fine! BUT teach them what we believe about her first.

They want to pray after this, fine! BUT NOT at the altar!

:mad:
[/quote]

Thank you!

Why on Earth would someone pray in a manner that is not their own in a place that is sacred to another very different religion? That’s just plain silly, disrespectful and confusing!


#13

I recall with my fuzzy memory, a Russian Orthodox church (or was it a chapel) that had been used once for a non-Christian event.

The townspeople bulldozed the building down because it had been desecrated.


#14

I agree that this is sad… if it is what it seems to be.

Even if it is not what it seems to be, why would the priest allow the appearance of a “desecration”? Why was he pictured as putting on the Hindu clothing? What would be his explanation for that?

The Hindus can pray to Mary, but not this way. And why does it have to be inside a Church, at the altar? The Hindus don’t seem to understand our concept of Mary (praying to VS. worshipping). If Mary is one of their dieties, then this seems to blur the differences between us and them. It is like we are saying their belief about Mary is ok because they are “praying” to her.
This is not ecumenism.

We can sit down with the Hindus and maybe try to find common ground. But we don’t have to worship together. Heck, we don’t even worship with protestants! At least they have the same God as us.


#15

This is both sad and disgusting… it reminds one of the kissing of the Koran picture… very troubling.


#16

After viewing the pictures and reading about the events all I can say is that what happened what totally pathetic, nauseating and indefensible. The Bishop and shrine rector have either lost their minds or hold completely unorthodox beliefs.

There is no way any clear thinking orthodox Catholic can look at those photos and think there is any room for a “non-judgmental understanding” or “maybe it was ok” mentality.

The Church in America is in a crisis today not because the laity have failed but because the bishops and priests have failed. I lament to see this isn’t a purely American problem.


#17

It wouldn’t bother me so much if these were simply Hindus who, sitting or kneeling in the pews, worshipped our Lord and Lady as a goddess. At least I would think, “Oh well, maybe this will bring them closer to the Truth.”

But the fact that their incantations were loud and public, that bothers me.

I know that, in India, it’s always been common, since the days of Saint Thomas, for Hindus to visit Christian shrines and pray at them. This is because Hindus believe that all the world’s deities are but manifestations of a single god, or a single principle: Brahman. Others see all the god-images, Hindu and non-Hindu, as symbols of one or anothe aspect of the All (Brahman).

In any event, I agree that what happened should not have been allowed to. If Hindus want to worship privately at Fatima, that’s one thing. They should keep their public ceremonies out.


#18

[quote=DominvsVobiscvm]If Hindus want to worship privately at Fatima, that’s one thing. They should keep their public ceremonies out.
[/quote]

Needless to say, I would agree. I would go a hair farther, however. Quite apart from whether the Hindus should keep their public puja out of the Fatima shrine (and they should), the shrine authorities (especially the shrine rector) should keep the puja out. That is to say, even if the Hindus do not have the decency to respect the sacred shrine, those in charge of the shrine should not be inviting them in and even participating in the desecration. As I have said elsewhere, there is a small consolation in the thought that this shrine is slated for destruction soon anyway, so at least the profaned altar will not remain for long.


#19

[quote=GrzeszDeL]Come on, we have all seen the photos from this service. The rector can say that no profanations of the altar of the Holy God were committed, but we have seen the pictures. This is like the Groucho Marx line in A Night at the Opera: “who are you going to believe, me or your own two eyes?”
[/quote]

  1. It was “Duck Soup,” not “Night at the Opera.”

  2. It was Chico Marx who said the line, not Groucho.

  3. Chico did not mention the number of eyes.

  4. The line was spoken to Margaret Dumont, who was being deceived, because both Harpo and Chico were impersonating Groucho. Therefore, she should not have believed what she thought she saw with her own eyes! :confused:

In the same way, you should not believe what you think you saw in a photograph, but should listen to the Rector’s clear explanation of what transpired.

(Both films are available on VHS, if you’d care to check. By the end of the year “Duck Soup” will be available on DVD.)


#20

This is both sad and disgusting… it reminds one of the kissing of the Koran picture… very troubling.

Dude, you’re confusing apples with oranges.

In the Middle East, kissing a gift, any gift, is a gestue of gratitude to the giver, not of homage to the gift.

Context is everything. Even in out own culture, a kiss means different things in different contexts. It isn’t the same, for example when you kiss your sister and when you kiss your wife. You clearly mean different things by it.

Unless you live in Mississippi . . .

:confused:


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