It's time to tell the TRUTH!


#1

I joined a ProtestantPride group online :stuck_out_tongue: just to see what’s going on!

I had to to laugh when one guy posted this:

Hello people ! I have a question to ask you people…why do Protestants call the Catholics as Christian Brothers and Sisters ? Are Catholics really Chiristians or not ? Are they truly saved ? Is that seperation between Catholics and Protestants over dogmas and doctrines ? Can Catholics be saved if they follow thier traditions , mass ,worshipping to the Virgin and saints , purgatory , indulgences , pope infallibity , confession to priests other unbibical practices and teachings ? Why do some or
perhaps a few Protestants are sick and tired of having a heated battle against the Catholics and are now buliding a bridge between them and the Catholics ? What’s happening to the old fashioned bible seperation from the Whore of Babylon ( The Roman Catholic Church ) ? 1611’s King James Bible , Enternal Security ( Once you are saved , you are always saved ) and Jesus Christ live forever !

Yours Truly ,
A 34- year old Conservative Canadian King James Bible Baptist
Fundalmentalist

So I had to reply to that message and tell him the REAL TRUTH and told him that it doesn’t take much to have an opened mind and heart. I also pointed out that non-Catholics are OUR brothers and sisters too.

So we’ll see how he’ll react! :stuck_out_tongue:

Wow, that was the first time I stood up and defended the CC big time!!! :thumbsup:


#2

Good job Paris!

I wonder what his rsponse will be? You’ll have to let us know… although I’m guessing it will be less than charitable? :hmmm:


#3

Well done Paris,

there is nothing better than preaching the truth to all, especially those who deny it. I often have trouble conveying my htourghts to protestants that I know because I fear and truly do not believe in offending them, which they seem to have no trouble doing when it comes to us Catholics. The truth is that we should never fear citing the truth, because in reality, we are not offending them, we are trying to turn thier hearts and bring to see the light and truth. Now the one thing that I have always found with Protestants is that they incessantly object to Catholicism because of misguided biblical beliefs. Now This “Canadian-Fundamentalist-Baptist-protestant”… says that all our catholic practices are unbiblical, which would seem obvious to him, with his King James Bible, because the earliest protestants, such as Luther, took it upon themselves to decide what was Holy text…to decide what constituted the Word of God? In this instance, it would be so easy wouldn’t it…to simply ignore the established Church that had carried the traditions and REAL WORD OF GOD, from the actual prophets who were the Disciples of Jesus! This is how we know that the CC is truly, the way, the truth, and the life…becasue we know that the true bible cannot be contested…excuse me…PROTESTED (protestant-someone protesting the Word of God) because it is the word of Jesus Christ himself, not a bunch of Medieval protesters, who took it upon themselves to decide what was Holy scripture. In the Book of Revelation it is said, although probably not in the protestant one, as I imagine this was probably the first thing that Luther removed or “translated” as he called it: I warn everyone who hears the prophetic words in this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, and if anyone takes away from the words in this prophetic book, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city described in this book. AND THIS IS THE WORD OF THE LORD…straight from the Prophet John, Dissciple of Jesus, Himself. Perhaps you should ask this Canadian Protestant if he, in his infinite defense of the Bible, is familiar with this passage?

Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam! (to the greater glory of God!)
R.A.H.


#4

[quote=Christ_Soldier] I warn everyone who hears the prophetic words in this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, and if anyone takes away from the words in this prophetic book, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city described in this book. AND THIS IS THE WORD OF THE LORD…straight from the Prophet John, Dissciple of Jesus, Himself. Perhaps you should ask this Canadian Protestant if he, in his infinite defense of the Bible, is familiar with this passage?

Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam! (to the greater glory of God!)
R.A.H.
[/quote]

So that even includes taking out the books like Sirach, Wisdom, etc. that non-Catholics took out?!?


#5

Oh, I was looking at the other messages this guy wrote and he included these (he actually replied to his question):

“Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.”

“Hello people ! The Roman Catholic Church is preaching another
Jesus and other Gospel !”

No doubt that this dude is anti-Catholic! That’s sad! :frowning:


#6

In the Catholic Bible, Revelation 18:4 reads, "Then I heard another voice from heaven say: “Depart from her, my people, so as not to take part in her sins and receive a share in her plagues.” Now in order to understand this, we must know “she” is in the context; who or what is being referred to. In this instance, “she” is Babylon, the empire and city in Northern Asia Minor, (modern day Turkey) where there lived many infidels (nonbelievers) and evildoers. Let us turn back a few numbers, namely 18:1-18:5:

1 After this I saw another angel coming down from heaven, having great authority, and the earth became illumined by his splendor.

2 He cried out in a mighty voice: "Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great. She has become a haunt for demons. She is a cage for every unclean spirit, a cage for every unclean bird, (a cage for every unclean) and disgusting (beast).

3 For all the nations have drunk the wine of her licentious passion. The kings of the earth had intercourse with her, and the merchants of the earth grew rich from her drive for luxury."

4 Then I heard another voice from heaven say: "Depart from her, my people, so as not to take part in her sins and receive a share in her plagues,

5 for her sins are piled up to the sky, and God remembers her crimes.

Now in Verse 4, which, along with the rest, in hardly understandable to us in modern day, which is why we have the Catechism and the Magesterium…which is a discussion for another time. Anyways, the passage is speaking about the sin of Babylon, and saying we must depart from her: not evacuation of the city but separation from sinners, as always in apocalyptic literature. Now I’m not sure, as the wording is different in the KJV (King James Version), if Mr. Canadian-fundamentalist-Baptist-Protestant has the same idea in mind.

Let us not forget though, that we, in the spirit of peace and charity, should not attack the protestant faith like they do ours (which wold make us no better than them). Instead, we must, through peaceful reasoning, do our very best to show and convince them of the true Christian faith. I know so many Catholics, even in the forum, who go around atttacking Protestants to quite the verbal extent. I must apologize and ask forgiveness for my earlier post, asI may have been slightly verbally attacking the protestant faith, as should all Catholics who harbor hateful emtions towards protestants; by attacking their faith is no way to bring to the true Church. throught generations, govt’s and even the Church itself, God forgive us, have used verbal and physical threats to spread the Gospel, which in light of reflection on Holy texts, can be considered wrong. This we cannot condone or overlook. Instead, we, as a faith and as a Church, must use this as an example, to show us how to proceed in the future. Keep this is your thoughts and prayers, and in light this, in fact pray for the conversion of all protestants, that they may of their own uncoerced will, but through peaceful guidance of Catholics, come to the Church freely. Keep all protestants and their hopeful conversions in your prayers.

Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam! (to the greater glory of God!)
R.A.H.


#7

[quote=Paris Blues]I joined a ProtestantPride group online :stuck_out_tongue: just to see what’s going on!

I had to to laugh when one guy posted this:

Hello people ! I have a question to ask you people…why do Protestants call the Catholics as Christian Brothers and Sisters ? Are Catholics really Chiristians or not ? Are they truly saved ? Is that seperation between Catholics and Protestants over dogmas and doctrines ? Can Catholics be saved if they follow thier traditions , mass ,worshipping to the Virgin and saints , purgatory , indulgences , pope infallibity , confession to priests other unbibical practices and teachings ? Why do some or
perhaps a few Protestants are sick and tired of having a heated battle against the Catholics and are now buliding a bridge between them and the Catholics ? What’s happening to the old fashioned bible seperation from the Whore of Babylon ( The Roman Catholic Church ) ? 1611’s King James Bible , Enternal Security ( Once you are saved , you are always saved ) and Jesus Christ live forever !

Yours Truly ,
A 34- year old Conservative Canadian King James Bible Baptist
Fundalmentalist

So I had to reply to that message and tell him the REAL TRUTH and told him that it doesn’t take much to have an opened mind and heart. I also pointed out that non-Catholics are OUR brothers and sisters too.

So we’ll see how he’ll react! :stuck_out_tongue:

Wow, that was the first time I stood up and defended the CC big time!!! :thumbsup:
[/quote]

Me thinks you will come back in the next life as a Fox Terrier!


#8

Paris----when you get more grounded in your Catholic faith, try the Former Catholics for Christ. They are more vicious than you can imagine.


#9

[quote=Christ_Soldier]Book of Revelation it is said, although probably not in the protestant one, as I imagine this was probably the first thing that Luther removed or “translated” as he called it: I warn everyone who hears the prophetic words in this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, and if anyone takes away from the words in this prophetic book, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city described in this book. AND THIS IS THE WORD OF THE LORD…straight from the Prophet John, Dissciple of Jesus, Himself. Perhaps you should ask this Canadian Protestant if he, in his infinite defense of the Bible, is familiar with this passage?

Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam! (to the greater glory of God!)
R.A.H.
[/quote]

[quote=Paris Blues]So that even includes taking out the books like Sirach, Wisdom, etc. that non-Catholics took out?!?
[/quote]

Paris,

Be careful with the quote from Revelations that Christ_Soldier recommended you use. Though his intentions were well grounded, the verse is misapplied against Protestants. “The book” in question is not the bible as a whole, but the book of Revelations. In its proper context, God warns us not to “add to” or “take away from” the supernatural vision just handed to John in Revelations.

We know this not only from the plain text rule of thumb used to interpret this verse, but also from the fact that at least one other book in the bible was written after Revelations by the very same author, The Gospel of St. John. Most experts agree that John’s gospel was written on or after 96 A.D., while Revelations was written prior to that in 95 A.D. According to the Catholic Encyclopedia:

finally, we have direct evidence concerning the date of composition. The so-called “Monarchian Prologue” to the Fourth Gospel, which was probably written about the year 200 or a little later, says concerning the date of the appearance of the Gospel: “He [sc. the Apostle John] wrote this Gospel in the Province of Asia, after he had composed the Apocalypse on the Island of Patmos”. The banishment of John to Patmos occurred in the last year of Domitian’s reign (i.e. about 95). A few months before his death (18 September, 96), the emperor had discontinued the persecution of the Christians and recalled the exiles (Eusebius, “Hist. eccl.”, III, xx, nn. 5-7). This evidence would therefore refer the composition of the Gospel to A.D. 96 or one of the years immediately following.

If Revelations prohibits “adding to” the scriptures, then John, himself, was guilty of this alleged sin and as a result has lost out on salvation. However, knowning the correct interpretation of the verse in question, John continued to receive inspiration to document even more scripture. Therefore, the correct usage of this verse is to warn others from adding to or taking away from the book of Revelations, not the bible.

Contrary to what Christ_Soldier stated, Revelations has been preserved in its entirety in Protestant bibles. Luther likely understood the correct interpretation of the verse in question and therefore had no qualms about removing the deuterocanonical books from the cannon of scripture without the need to alter Revelations.

Fair warning: if you use this verse to counter Protestants’ defense of removing the deuterocanonical books from the Old Testament, then it may come back to bite you in the form of a more bible literate Protestant correcting you with the prevailing interpretation I just gave.

In any event, God bless you and your efforts to set the record straight with Protestants. May He increase your gifts and zeal for His Holy Catholic Church.

In Christ,
Mike


#10

Guys,

I went back to the group and to my surprise, someone eventually responded to my response but this guy USED TO BE A CATHOLIC! This is what he wrote:

"However, this group is alive and exciting . I used to be a Catholic . Matter of fact, I wast baptised in a Catholic parish named “St Francis of Assisi " in 1999 . Now , I am a KJV - only Baptist and now saved !”

How do you and what do you respond to an ex-Catholic so to speak when they have grounded their roots into Protestantism?


#11

[quote=Paris Blues]Guys,

I went back to the group and to my surprise, someone eventually responded to my response but this guy USED TO BE A CATHOLIC! This is what he wrote:

"However, this group is alive and exciting . I used to be a Catholic . Matter of fact, I wast baptised in a Catholic parish named “St Francis of Assisi " in 1999 . Now , I am a KJV - only Baptist and now saved !”

How do you and what do you respond to an ex-Catholic so to speak when they have grounded their roots into Protestantism?
[/quote]

Like many others these days, including many Catholics (sadly) this man is more interested in what “tickles his ears” than in seeking out the truth. For Fundamentalists, such as this man’s Baptist church, believing in a “simple Gospel” that requires nothing after a one time conversion experience relieves him of any responsibility for his soul. He can be lax about practicing his faith and still be saved. He doesn’t have to reexamine his conscience and keep his sins before his eyes, to keep him humbly dependent on God. Rather, he presumes he’s “made it” and so can simply glide through life without the bother of questioning his intentions or his actions. Though he gives the “glory” to God, he credits himself with all the virtues he hasn’t toiled for. He doesn’t need to own up to any of his sins and faults ever again. That is very appealing to the old Adam and many fall for it.


#12

[quote=Paris Blues]Guys,

I went back to the group and to my surprise, someone eventually responded to my response but this guy USED TO BE A CATHOLIC! This is what he wrote:

"However, this group is alive and exciting . I used to be a Catholic . Matter of fact, I wast baptised in a Catholic parish named “St Francis of Assisi " in 1999 . Now , I am a KJV - only Baptist and now saved !”

How do you and what do you respond to an ex-Catholic so to speak when they have grounded their roots into Protestantism?
[/quote]

Paris, Paris, Paris. Tsk, tsk, tsk. Protestant baiting again, are we? I thought you were going to stay away from those places?

I know you and others are going to whomp me upside the knot for this, but I’m an OLD person with the long view. You are not at this time temperamentally suited to dealing with these dudes. You get too wrought up. Zeal needs to be anchored by strong preparation on all fronts: emotional, spiritual, doctrinal, historical.

For heaven’s sake, Paris! You’re not even confirmed yet. Give yourself a chance to ripen.


#13

Mercy is right. You’ve got to be extremely well versed in the Faith before you start sparring with these guys–ex-catholic protestants are the worst. I’ve been banned from 2 of these sites now and will probably be banned from a new one that I’m on right now very soon. Unfortunately, hard as I try to remain calm and charitable, I get angry and emotional. You have to ask yourself is it worth it to post on these boards. I’m really not sure if it is…


#14

Paris…I agree completely with Mercygate and Kim…

At this time you should be covering yourself with the happy aspects of what R.C.I.A. will bring to your life, and preparing for the most Holy sacrament. Apologetics can get really ugly and mean, and it might take away from your joy…and you are so sincere and beautiful in your newfound faith, that I would hate for anything to boggle you down. I have no doubt that you will make a wonderful apologist one day! It is my opinion that you should wait and just focus on yourself and revel, roll around in, and completely enjoy what you are experiencing today.


#15

[quote=kim wilson]Mercy is right. You’ve got to be extremely well versed in the Faith before you start sparring with these guys–ex-catholic protestants are the worst. I’ve been banned from 2 of these sites now and will probably be banned from a new one that I’m on right now very soon. Unfortunately, hard as I try to remain calm and charitable, I get angry and emotional. You have to ask yourself is it worth it to post on these boards. I’m really not sure if it is…
[/quote]

Every time we react in anger or answer a question glibly without preparation, we put a barrier between that person and the fullness truth. Definitely not worth it.


#16

All right I’ll take your word. But in a way, it’s also a good thing too because in a way it kind of lets me know how much I really know about the Faith! :stuck_out_tongue:


#17

Hey I was wondering then, how long will it take for me to learn more of the Faith until I can go and defend without being “ignorant”? :confused:


#18

[quote=Paris Blues]Hey I was wondering then, how long will it take for me to learn more of the Faith until I can go and defend without being “ignorant”? :confused:
[/quote]

You don’t have to “go” to defend; that is a contradiction in terms.

Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof. Trouble will come to you; no need to “go” and seek it out. When a challenge arrives on your doorstep unbidden, that is “defense.” Going out looking for trouble is called “belligerence.”

If you want an idea of “when” a person is ready, you might look into the preparation materials for the Catholic Evidence Guild.
catholic.com/thisrock/1994/9404clas.asp
catholic.com/thisrock/1999/9907fea3.asp
cegguam.org/cegpamphlet.htm (This is an out-of-print book is really a lesson plan. You you might better order it via inter-library loan if you don’t want to print it out)

CEG training programs were rigorous and thorough. People were not allowed to go out and engage in public apologetics until they had passed through months, even years, of training. As each apologist improved, he was promoted to cover more and more complex issues.


#19

[quote=mercygate]You don’t have to “go” to defend; that is a contradiction in terms.

Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof. Trouble will come to you; no need to “go” and seek it out. When a challenge arrives on your doorstep unbidden, that is “defense.” Going out looking for trouble is called “belligerence.”

If you want an idea of “when” a person is ready, you might look into the preparation materials for the Catholic Evidence Guild.
catholic.com/thisrock/1994/9404clas.asp
catholic.com/thisrock/1999/9907fea3.asp
cegguam.org/cegpamphlet.htm (This is an out-of-print book is really a lesson plan. You you might better order it via inter-library loan if you don’t want to print it out)

CEG training programs were rigorous and thorough. People were not allowed to go out and engage in public apologetics until they had passed through months, even years, of training. As each apologist improved, he was promoted to cover more and more complex issues.
[/quote]

You’re right about the “go”. I meant really was if I came across a website or even another forum who was saying false stuff about the CC and I could be able to defend it. That’s what I was getting at.


#20

Paris…

You will not need to “go and defend”, they will come to you. One thing I try and do is not start the conversation, if an erronous statement is made, i try and politely correct them. whether or not they agree or if they even hear is not in my hands.
(sadly, sometimes i too get a little flustered and forge to show the charity)

In Christ


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