Heard these two on radio last Sat. Both were spewing out the most vile Anti-Catholic hate I have ever heard. These two are pawns of the dark side. To hear them spew such venom, will make one nauseated and so saddened that people claiming to be Christian could be so destructive to the faith.
Never heard of them. Who are they?
Mike Gendron is an ex-Catholic, who now specializes in leading Catholics away from the Church. Based in Plano, Tx. Trained @ Dallas Theo. Seminary and now does Anti-Catholic Seminars. Promotes anti-Catholic tracts and videos … kind of like Chick.
Jan Markell is out of Maple Grove, MN. She has this radio broadcast ministry, that asks for internet donations to survive, and sponsors guests like Mike G.
They are both new to me, have only heard them this one time … but, it was the worst hate propaganda I’ve ever encountered on radio.
How sad for them. Forgive them Father for the know not what they do…
Our Lord Jesus Christ suffered hate and as the bible tells us that we too shall be hated for His Name’s sake.
I am not saying that I enjoy all the hatred shown to the Holy Catholic Church, but it just proves to me that we belong to the One True Church. I don’t think any other Christian Church is hated as much.
It is strange that the Orthodox who believe so closely to our beliefs are not persecuted and hated as we are. Although they are our brothers and sisters in the Faith they have separated themselves but still hold the Apostolic priesthood and sacraments.
I have to ask why. The reason I think ,is that Satan has been trying to destroy the Church since its inception and only goes after Christ’s True Church.
I know that there is persecution in some countries against all Christians, but in the Western world you wouldn’t expect the same treatment. I do wonder how far some of these people would go against Catholics if they could by law.
Such pity we should have for them as if as we believe that the Catholic Church is the True Church then these people who spout such venom and hatred towards Christ’s own Church and His Most Holy and Blessed Mother well have much to answer for on judgment day.
Even if we were wrong about being in the True Church (of course we aren’t) I have never heard any Catholic spew such horrible things against protestants, Orthodox or even non-Christian faiths. We still accept Christ as our Savior and show love to our separated brethern.
There are some Catholics who show little love for others, but very few.
Unless these people and other non Catholics have an open heart to follow the Holy Spirit there is nothing that we can say that will bring them Home.
Thankfully there are several protestants on the forums who are very charitable and are here to learn and exchange views on the differences between us.
I am so thankful that the Holy Spirit led me to the Church. Also I feel that to be as hateful as many are is really a sickness in their minds. Hate is very powerful and destroys a person’s soul. God showed me what hate does to a person many years ago.
Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary
Why is it always lapsed Catholics who turn out to be the most hateful toward the Church of their birth? His entire ‘ministry’ is based on hate.
Pray for the Lord to open his eyes.
Gendron isn’t all that good. Lots of vitriol and misinformation but fairly easy to refute. I get his e-newsletter and this is what his last one says.
This is an e-mail from ‘Proclaiming The Gospel Ministries with Evangelist Mike Gendron’
Dear PTG Subscribers,
In the June survey of Evangelical Leaders conducted by the National Association of Evangelicals, ninety-two percent said they would worship with Roman Catholics. “This may surprise those who mistakenly stereotype evangelicals as separatists who keep their distance from those with different beliefs,” according to Leith Anderson, president of the National Association of Evangelicals. He said that many respondents even added, “Not only am I willing but I encourage my pastors to do so as well.” This survey should be shocking news considering it was just 450 years ago that Catholics were brutally torturing, and putting to death, the Reformers who would not bow their knee to the papacy.
I guess we should praise God for the 8% that have the discernment to know the true Gospel from the gospel of a false religion. We know from John 4:24 that God seeks worshippers in Spirit and Truth, therefore the true worshippers of God cannot join hands in worship with those who uphold and believe a gospel of works, sacraments and self-righteousness. We are never to be unequally yoked with unbelievers. Instead of worshipping with them, we must lovingly confront them with the glorious Gospel of grace. It truly saddens me to know that 92% of evangelicals have been so duped and deceived by the signers of the 1994 Evangelicals and Catholics Together Accord. Tragically that accord put the Gospel off limits to over 1 billion Catholics by convincing many evangelicals that Catholics should not be evangelized because they are already our brothers and sisters in Christ. Whereas, there may be a small percentage of born again Christians who have believed the true Gospel but continue to worship in the Catholic Church, they will eventually depart from this false religion as they are sanctified by the Holy Spirit.
The 92% of evangelicals, who encourage unity in worship with members of a false religion, need to know that Evangelicals and Catholics are profoundly divided on the key essentials of the Gospel: 1) how one is born again, 2) how one is justified, 3) how one is purified of sin, 4) who can mediate between God and 5) man and the efficacy, sufficiency and necessity of Jesus Christ. These are not minor issues – they are the differences between an eternity in heaven and an eternity in the tormenting fires of hell. May God give us all discernment in the times of great deception, tolerance and compromise of the Gospel.
Take advantage of the last week of our July special: receive 50 free Gospel tracts of your choice for every Proclaiming the Gospel DVD that you order. This survey is a vivid reminder of the need for truth to be known. You must call xxx-xxx-xxxx to place your order. Our website is not setup to handle this special offer.
I’ve refuted two of his articles on our most holy faith on my blog. It is my humble opinion that he (and Markel too probably, though I haven’t dealt with her propaganda yet.) makes his living feeding the a-C propaganda mills and perpetuates it all by giving lectures at his alma mater from time to time.
I am not impressed…:shrug:
[FONT=Comic Sans MS]
[/FONT]Refuting: "Is a Catholic Christian an Oxymoron?"
From Gendron’s website: :rolleyes:
**Proclaiming the Gospel Ministries was established in 1991 by Mike Gendron to serve and glorify the Lord Jesus Christ by equipping and encouraging Christians to proclaim the Gospel clearly, faithfully and effectively. The ministry also exposes the fatal errors of Roman Catholicism, Islam and apostate Christianity, along with other faith movements such as the emerging church, purpose driven church and the church growth movement. We also proclaim the soon return of the Lord Jesus Christ and exhort believers to contend earnestly for the faith until that glorious day. As a Roman Catholic for over 30 years, I was taught from the Catechism that salvation was by faith plus baptism, the sacraments, good works, law keeping, the sacrifice of the Mass, indulgences, purgatory and penance. According to God’s infallible word, this is another gospel that deceives Catholics with a false hope. Only when Catholics trust the Lord Jesus Christ as their all-sufficient savior will they know they are saved completely and forever!
As Director of Proclaiming the Gospel Ministry, Mike works through local churches equipping the saints to effectively and faithfully communicate the Gospel of grace. He has taught the students and faculty at The Master’s Seminary, Dallas Theological Seminary, Moody Bible and Tyndale Theological Seminary. Mike is the author of Preparing Catholics for Eternity and Roman Catholicism: Scripture vs. Tradition, along with other resources that make the Gospel clear to those who are trapped in religious deception. Since graduating from Dallas Theological Seminary in 1991, Mike has conducted short-term missions trips and taught in hundreds of churches throughout the world.
The Purpose Of Proclaiming The Gospel Ministries**
*] To urge Roman Catholics to renounce their faith in anything that opposes or nullifies the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
*] To persuade Roman Catholics to personally place their complete trust in Jesus Christ, His word, His grace, His redemption, His perfect sacrifice, His substitutionary atonement, and His finished work, so they can be saved from the power and penalty of sin and become children of God.
*] To expose the doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church that oppose or nullify the true Gospel, so people can know truth from error and not be deceived.
*] To awaken Christians and evangelical churches to the reality that Catholics who adhere to the official dogmas of the Roman Catholic Church need to hear the gospel and repent from their dead works. (Hebrews 6:1)
The Methods We Use
Proclaiming The Gospel ministers to people in several ways, including:
*] Books, tapes, tracts and videos developed specifically for evangelizing Roman Catholics.
Group studies in homes or churches that proclaim the Gospel and expose the unscriptural teachings of Roman Catholicism
*] Teaching seminars for Christians who want to become involved in evangelizing Roman Catholics.
*] A bi-monthly newsletter with articles of interest, ideas for witnessing to Catholics, testimonies, current events, theological and doctrinal contrasts, etc.
*] Discipleship for former Catholics who, after leaving the Catholic Church, may experience feelings of guilt, doubt or family rejection.
So now you know what this guy’s stated agenda is, but if you know your faith you’ll already be seeing the misinformation he propagates and that some folks accept as truth. Pretty sad really.
I think I found the MP3 of the show you heard. Is this it. July 25, 2009 - Hour 2
joins Jan to discuss the coming one-world religion and his new DVD teaching about this. Part of the discussion centers on the “False Prophet,” the Catholic Church in the last days, and rush for global government and a global religion. Who will the players be in this false religious system, and how can we see it shaping up today. And why are so many evangelicals aligning with Rome with its many false doctrines?Gendron speaks of a great apostasy today. I’d have to say that his errors might be far closer to that than he’ll ever admit.
Oh wow, they want to take on Caritas in Veritate! Too bad they completely misrepresent the message of the encyclical. That’s a fairly common a-C tactic. Quote a passage out of context and then allege something that is untrue. Markell apparently hasn’t even read the document.
Notice that Gendron goes on misrepresent the message of the Catholic Church and even on Purgatory.
“Spiritually inferior”…I think I covered that in my article Who REALLY Preaches “A Different Gospel”?
Gendron impresses me as more of a conspiracy theorist. :shrug:
“A history of destroying Christians…” He’s completely misinforming people. Can you believe that he actually used that 50 million number of supposed people the Catholic Church killed. He even says that reliable historians assert that, when we know quite well that that is not true.
There’s a lot of propaganda here, but really it’s not all that hard to refute.
He alleges that the church teaches things that we do not. The really bad news is that ignorant people accept this stuff as factual.
Notice they knock mysticism a lot. What gets me is that if one reads the New Testament, how can anyone say that Christianity
Did you hear them mock the Eucharist in the wise cracks about the “Ecumenical Stew served with Eucharistic wafers”! :mad: That’s real charitable of them. If I love someone then I don’t make those kinds of remarks to them even if I don’t agree with them. I lose all respect for those who do that.
Our faith has more in common with Islam than Christianity? What bunkum.:rolleyes:
He misrepresents transubstantiation bigtime, and ignores all the scripture in the New Testament that clearly teaches the Eucharistic Real Presence. Here’s my article that covers those scriptural texts. The Eucharist IS Scriptural
“People who are decieved do not know it until they are confronted.” Good grief! It certainly feels like the very same thing about these two guys.
“Love and compassion and mercy”… he says that’s unreal, when he comes off with all his misinformation and his agenda to decieve Catholics away from our most holy faith.
“Not about bashing Catholics”…“Not our enemy”… I sure can’t tell from what I have heard in this broadcast.
He’s gonna have a problem with guys like me who were deceived away from the faith and were n-C for over 30 years and then because of my Bible studies I came home to the faith.
These two are one reason that St. James says, “Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, for you know that we who teach shall be judged with greater strictness.”
Sounds like ‘New World Order’ conspiracy stuff.
These people screw up ‘cash for clunkers’, and I’m supposed to worry they will take over the world?
Anytime you see Dallas Theological Seminary or the phrase “faith plus” you should know to expect a recycling of 16th century propaganda. These are the heirs of some of the more misguided attempts at the Restorationist movement in the 19th century that sought to “restore” first century Christianity as they understood it.
There must be a caveat here - you’re talking mainly poorly-educated persons (19th century, remember) whose minds were rife with Nativist sentiments, which included a good deal of vitriol aimed at the wave of Catholic immigrants.
The Restorationists weren’t the only ones undergoing a revival, nor were they the sole group to exhort anti-Catholic propaganda. Alexander Hislop, for instance, was Scottish Calvinist. But nearly every other Protestant group dropped their more extreme oppositions to the Catholic Church except for these groups who label themselves ‘fundamentalist’ or ‘dispensationalist’. Why?
I think we can partly blame a human phenomenon whereby if you view yourself in antagonism with someone, you attempt to be dissimilar to them. Here we had a group of people who received all the fury of Calvin without the tempering effect of sound Scriptural study and without access to history. How else could we explain the rise of the “King James Only” movement, which argued that there was really no Bible for 1600 years after Christ’s earthly ministry?
I think we can also blame the relative newness of the groups (remember, 19th century) combined with their eschatological focus. The end wasn’t only always near, it was bloody well nigh! We know from Scripture that our Apostolic forebears had to contend with those who said that Christ had already returned (Thess 2:1-2), and we know from history that a good number of the heretical sects opposed the Church partly out of the expectation of an imminent End. The Restorationists were no different - the Millerites calculated the exact date and time of Christ’s Second Coming, and believed with such unshakeable certainty that when the next day came, it was called The Great Dissapointment. Likewise, this is why organizations such as the Jehovah’s Witnesses initially only included 144,000 in the number to be saved, which doesn’t seem to cause much of a theological problem if you don’t anticipate existing as an earthly entity for long enough to get 145,000 members.
When I watch evangelical media … no, I should say the rubbish of their media because they have some quality works and these are not among them … I get the impression that some of it is inspired by the newness of their personal faiths much as a muscle spasm is inspired by a recent and unanticipated stimulus. Shows such as those hosted by Hal Lindsay and Jack Van Impe and his frightening wife show a great ability to memorize Scripture but not to understand it either critically or contextually, nor to understand current or past events. Indeed, this is the definition of Fundamentalism (capital F), that the world can be understood properly solely through one lens and that this lens trumps all other forms of understanding.
This is where we get some very heterodox understandings of Scripture:
- The notion that confession of sins is not required (even to God) because there is no call in the New Testament to do so
- The fatal concept of “cheap Grace”, ie that ‘I am baptized and nothing I do can take that away’
- The constant pandering to the very signs and wonders that Jesus warned us not to seek.
- A confusion of Scripture as reporter of history and mandator of choices. This is the core error of Frank Viola’s work (all churches were initially underground in homes, so all true worship should be centered in home churches) as well as the “Quiverfull Movement’s” argument that women were created inferior and should only work in the home.
But I’m getting beyond the scope here, so I’ll return to the core question:
Why do fallen-away Catholics seem to be the most antagonistic?
I think this is self-interpretive - whatever caused a Catholic to leave the Church opened a wound that they did not seek healing for, but rather justification of the cause of the wound in the first place.
Some leave the Church because of personal slight, angry at the humiliation, the embarrassment, and perhaps the actual injury. The worst example of this is of those who suffered abuse by a lay minister or the clergy. Such a wound would warp a person’s understanding of faith as much as abuse at the hands of a parent would warp a child’s understanding of parenting.
Some leave the Church because of disagreement with doctrine. Perhaps they were not well-formed in faith, or perhaps it was even a result of peer pressure. There was a local Baptist church in my hometown that often set up field trips for the high school kids, which would end (unexpectedly) with a worship service complete with altar calls. We’re not talking a simple prayer of thanks or faith-sharing time. This was organized and high pressure, and made me uncomfortable enough (at 14) to take only one such trip with them. There are some who left the Church after much study and for objections that seek support in Scripture even if we see them as incorrect. But few of those who leave the Church in anger left on such terms. If you studied Catholic theology enough to honestly disagree with it, it’s hard to be angry to the point that we see in the evangelists mentioned above.
Most, I think, leave the Church over social teachings. The 1980s saw a slew of divorcees flee the Church and swell the ranks of evangelical communities. This was a truly missed opportunity to minister to the wounded who needed balm as well as right teaching. The Church’s negative reaction was remembered more than any positive efforts to heal these wounded parishoners, and many left to fall into apathy or conversion. I have been trying for more than a decade to bring my parents to Mass regularly, to little avail (at least they came to our wedding and our daughter’s baptism). My wife has friends who are currently considering leaving the Church because they view the teaching against homosexual acts as being too severe and have expressed that they cannot defend these teachings to their gay friends. To these, bringing up no-longer-relevant matters such as the Crusades gives them credence in their eyes and helps them to internally justify their decisions.
Those are my thoughts, more than a few (sorry), but it’s early and I don’t have time to write a short series of thoughts.
When I was a Comm major (!) I studied a theory called memetics that treats ideas like viruses (called “memes”) in that they alter our behavior. A dirty joke would be a meme because someone who doesn’t ordinarily share stories of marital infidelity would pass along a dirty joke about a doctor’s wife, a milkman, and a ‘second opinion’. More to the point, conspiracy theories and urgent messages have a tendency to act as memes because they encourage their own perpetuation. This is why many experts on cults say that a cult must hold to an exclusivity, ie “we’re the only ones who will be saved from the coming devastation”. The urgency with which a message is expressed (and believed) helps to overcome the ridiculousness of it, which is why the folks gladly wore matching jerseys with “Earth Away Team” embroidered on them to drink the kool-aid at the Heaven’s Gate compound.
But this stuff grabs onto people in a way that they can’t seem to shake. It’s nothing like Calvin’s irresistable grace (though some claim it to be) but I think it’s what happens when a trusted authority gives a message beyond your ability to comprehend or refute. You don’t want to argue against it, you can’t argue against it, so why not accept it? That doesn’t mean the authority actually has the right or ability to be authoritative, nor does it mean that their message cannot be overcome. But if you’re an average American you read at the 4th grade level (another lesson from Communications), have graduated from high school, and spend more time watching sports than enriching your mind, and so why bother challenging someone who just made what seems a convincing case to you?
I was briefly involved with a group affiliated with the ICoC who used precisely this formula to try to exert control over me. They presented themselves as authority and leveled their message at me in such a way as to be difficult to overcome. By this, I mean when I had Bible Study with them, they overwhelmed me with passages, sometimes 20 to 30 in a given one-hour study session (they even took notes for me!). It wasn’t until I got time to think, later, that I saw that what they said had no internal cohesion and couldn’t be proven from the context of Scripture. The way I got the group to leave me alone was by sending a letter with in-depth explanations of my understanding of Scripture.
But you might say “If they really study Scripture, they KNOW the truth and won’t get suckered into a group like this.” Don’t underestimate the power of rhetoric, which is the art of saying nothing but sounding right. I met a man who converted from Southern Baptist to Islam because he never satisfactorily responded to a question by a Muslim - “Where does Jesus say ‘I am God, bow down and worship me.’”
Politicians are masters at this, speaking just enough in buzzwords to appeal to a demographic, but having all the conviction of “I like puppies”. I took an Ethics class in college which was rather boring because it was a small midwestern town and we were all from similar backgrounds so there wasn’t much disagreement. So the prof offered extra credit for anyone who played devil’s advocate - one point for every four minutes you sustained an argument of the less popular position. I took full advantage of this to bring the class into heated arguments, me against the 14 of them, often arguing for no position at all, but using figures of speech and rhetorical devices to shut down opposition. It can be done very effectively, and if a person with charisma and magnetism does so it is a devastating effect.
There are more conspiracy theorists than you realize, just as there are a swath of practicing Catholics who believe in a LaHayist Rapture, just as there are a swath of Americans who think that there were no Jews in the World Trade Center, just as there are a swath of high school students who can’t find the U.S. on a map. Our struggle here is primarily against error but ultimately against ignorance and apathy.
Wow, just wow. Pray for Mike Gendron and Jan Markell - they are bearing false witness against the body of Christ. Either knowingly or unknowingly they are doing the devil’s work.
Thanks Church Militant and others who have posted on this thread. To answer the “so” comment, Mike Gendron needs to be addressed because he does a lot of harm with his misinformation. I personally experienced the Mike Gendron syndrome when converting to the Catholic Church. My Baptist family bought into the Gendron lies and tried to use the specious arguments against the Church. My most effective response has been to take them to mass. I have used the Creed as a jumping off point to demonstrate what we REALLY believe.
I had a several email exchange with Gendron a couple years ago. I probably still have it on another computer. As I recall the conversation was charitable, but he dodged my questions by asking me ones back. So I answered his and then asked him my original question again. And he replied pithily with something like “Either you accept Christ or not!” In other words, when it came time to defend his accusations or positions, he was not prepared to give reason… (1 Pt 3:15) :rolleyes:
I’m convinced it is a “breakup” factor. People leave the Church for a variety of reasons that evoke anger: perhaps they wanted a divorce, didn’t want to confess to a priest, wanted to practice contraception, or maybe even decided their own interpretation of Scripture trumps the Church’s. At any rate, the person breaks off with the Church, and like an ex-boyfriend/girlfriend, the person has nothing good to say about the other person anymore. The person from who they broke from is now “all bad.”
Gendron is unfortunately delusional, and credit to those who invoke prayer on his behalf.
Does anyone have a link to the archive from Relevant Radio…it was June 2007 according to the thread, and I remember hearing part of it. Gendron actually debated Tim Staples. Gendron did not do well.
If you go to his website, there’s a radio cast of him getting owned on a Catholic Radio program. Why he would post himself losing a debate is beyond me, but it’s there right on the front of it.